Alex Curtis-Slep - Enriching Your Life as a Developer

Show Notes:

Sponsor Virtual Coffee!

Your support is incredibly valuable to us. Direct financial support will help us to continue serving the Virtual Coffee community.

Please visit our sponsorship page on GitHub for more information - you can even sponsor an episode of the podcast!

Virtual Coffee:

• Virtual Coffee: virtualcoffee.io
• Podcast Contact: podcast@virtualcoffee.io
• Bekah: dev.to/bekahhw, Twitter: https://twitter.com/bekahhw, Instagram: bekahhw
• Dan: dtott.com, Twitter: @danieltott

Transcript:

Bekah: 00:04

Hello and welcome to season eight, episode two of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. . I am Bekah, and this is a podcast that features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee is an intimate tech community of people at all stages of their tech journey, and they're here on this podcast and sharing their stories and what they've learned here with me today is my co-host, Dan.

Dan: 00:27

What up Bek?

Bekah: 00:29

what's up?

Dan: 00:30

Yo. Um, not much. Um, today we have another great as usual episode for y'all. Um, we have Alex Curtis-Slep, uh, here with us. Alex is a self-taught software developer, and a long time, you know, Virtual Coffee member, Virtual Coffee volunteer, and uh, really. All around great person. He's one of our, you know, I think most common, uh, room leaders. He does an amazing job at that. And, um, is, uh, you know, I don't know. He's a great, he's a great, uh, member of our community, so, uh, we're very happy to have him on the podcast today.

Bekah: 01:04

Yeah. And one of the things that I really like from this episode is Alex talking a lot about balancing learning as a developer, but also there's other hobbies and passions that you bring as a human person, right? Like we're not just developers. We have these other things that we do, and I think that. It's really important to acknowledge all of the different pieces of us, and I appreciate Alex, uh, tolerating maybe, uh, encouraging our questions to, um, dive into some of those other parts of us that become really important to understand who we are as people and by extension developers.

Dan: 01:42

Yeah, I totally agree. I, I mean, I, I think he had a, a really awesome outlook on, on all that stuff. How to, how to stay healthy and, you know, in general happy as as a developer. And, um, he had a lot of good ideas to sort of help you do that, uh, in a. manageable way, right? As, uh, we still have to work, you know, uh, sometimes even, even sometimes when we're not feeling great. And there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of ways to help you get through that. And I think Alex had some, some great ideas for that process.

Bekah: 02:13

Absolutely. We start every episode of the podcast, like we start every Virtual Coffee with introducing ourselves with our name, where we're from, what we do in a random check-in question. We hope you enjoy this episode. today's question is, would you rather go on road trips or fly to a different country? My name is Bekah. I am a person in tech from a small town in Ohio, and I think that it has to do with who you're taking a trip with. I think road trips can be really fun, but if it's like road trip with my kids where we're driving in a car for a long amount of time, they are not going to be happy and then that's not going to be super fun. So maybe I would fly with them to a different country, but I would not road trip with them. Although I think road tripping would be very fun.

Dan: 03:31

Nice. Uh. Hi, I'm Dan. I am also a person in tech and I live in Cleveland. And, uh, yeah, I love road trips. I mean, I, I don't mind flying places or whatever, but, um, I'm a big, big fan of road tripping and I would, I have road tripped in two other countries, you know, well, I guess one, but, you know, I've done it. I'm gonna do it again. Uh, it's good times. Um, it would be cool to. Go to Europe and drive around. I suppose they have like all the trains and stuff like that too. But you

Bekah: 04:05

I feel like you're cheating. You're like, I'm going to fly to a different country and road trip there. That's not the question

Dan: 04:12

gosh, uh, can you drive to, can you drive to South America? Like from North America? Is there a bridge over like the canal and stuff?

Alex: 04:25

I dunno one.

Bekah: 04:26

feel like you're pushing it there.

Dan: 04:28

I've driven to of times and I'm gonna do it again this summer. So, yeah, I, I'm with road trips. Road trips are fun. I like them. That's my answer.

Alex: 04:38

Cool.

Bekah: 04:39

Welcome, Alex. Go ahead.

Alex: 04:41

Thanks for having me. I'm Alex. I'm a software developer in the Tampa Bay, Florida area and. My choice would be to fly to my destination. As much as I also love road trips, I think flying is, is my number one.

Bekah: 04:57

Nice. Sounds good.

Dan: 05:00

I'm not a big fan of airports or like being in planes. I mean, like, I I like being in the air, but it's just like the, these planes with all the, you know, you're all packed in together and stuff.

Alex: 05:11

Yeah,

Dan: 05:12

I think that's my main thing.

Bekah: 05:13

I took my girls to Houston last week, Texas. And so we had to fly and it was their first time on a plane and I some of it, but it was so funny, like they were so loud because they were so excited. They're like, did you feel that? What? Look at that. And I was just like, the, joy that they had flying for the first time was so fun.

Alex: 05:34

Yeah, that's cool.

Bekah: 05:37

So welcome Alex. We are very, very happy to have you here. Alex is a longtime member and volunteer at Virtual Coffee, and we wanna get started with your origin story. So before we jump into that, what is one word that describes your developer journey?

Alex: 05:56

Well, I think at this point, I'll say gratifying. I think that so many people have welcomed me with open arms and given me great support and allowed me to be. Who I am and really just try to cater to what I'm trying to do. And I just think that that's been so moving for me on a lot of different levels. And so I would just say gratifying ultimately.

Bekah: 06:19

I love that. That's really great. So talk to us a little bit about what that journey looked like for you.

Alex: 06:25

Yeah. so. I'd always been interested in I've had a blog since early 2002, and so my first exposure to coding was customizing HTML and CSS on, on that site. And I didn't think too much, uh, about coding at the time as far as, uh, the importance or the frequency that I would do it. I was just trying to make my site look how I wanted it, Later on 2019, um, I was following Madison Cannon's, uh, YouTube channel and email list, and, uh, she made a course about. Creating a developer roadmap. And I thought, okay, you know, I'll give this a shot, um, just one time fee and you know, just 50 bucks and I'll get this a shot and see, see what I think of it. Um, got nothing to lose and I really liked it. Um, I took a course from Treehouse on, on front end development and that was kind of my, my aha so to speak, about coding and, and this software development stuff, and went from there and, Did react and open source, and of course jumped into VC and got to meet more people. Um, so it just really kind of brought light to the whole, uh, the whole scene and, and now I'm meeting more of these people in person and it's just been an uh, uphill climb, I guess you could say. And, uh, it's been fun. So there's a lot of great people here and we're all just supporting each other and, and. Enjoying enjoying it. So I think that's ultimately what life's about.

Bekah: 07:58

Yeah, I love that. Okay, and I wanna take a step back for a second because I think you're the only person I've ever heard talk about Madison. And can's course. So, uh, how did you first discover it? Was it through Twitter and then you started the course?

Alex: 08:15

Um, so I don't know if the course is currently still active, but, um, at the time I. Initially found her YouTube channel just looking different random stuff on YouTube, and I was on her email list and then she subsequently. Notified us about the course and uh, now I think that we're still running the code book club there on Discord. And uh, so that's still a weekly active thing and uh, I tend to be there. I've missed the last couple weeks, but I love that group. And there's a core group of people that have been around, uh, since around the same time. VC started in 2020, and that's a great group of people and we always really. Like, just like if you do in vc, we grow together and we really work on our skills and it's fantastic.

Bekah: 09:00

That's great. So what was that course like?

Alex: 09:04

That course, um, was more about. Exploring different options. Okay, you can take courses on this platform or that platform, and here's the comparison of maybe a self-directed path to a bootcamp path. And it was more about exploring the options you have to, to become a developer and, and then just trying to encourage people to jump into the option that they felt was best for them.

Bekah: 09:30

I love that. I think that's really important. And a lot of the challenges that new folks have coming into tech is figuring out that exact thing, right? Especially like there's so much out there that you could be doing or learning. And I know at one point I was doing a Udacity Nanodegree program and it was like, Soul crushing it wanted me to die inside and

Alex: 09:51

Oh wow.

Bekah: 09:52

you know, I, I'm, I'm not cut out for this because I can't sit here and watch these videos and finish it. And then I found Flatiron School and that ended up working way better for me. And it was a, it was a game changer. But when you're first exploring that thing, especially if you don't have a group of people there to kind of advise you or to ask questions to, it can be really hard to figure out what works for you.

Alex: 10:16

For sure. And, um, you know, Madison definitely helped me in a lot in the beginning, like taking time to just do one-on-ones and just see where I was, going and progressing and having that support and, and that community, whether it be virtual or in person. Uh, Like we cultivate here at VC is, is critical and it really just enables people to level up and it allows people to, to get the feedback that they need to, to change courses they need. And I think that really just helps people so much. And it's something that really is, uh, a chord of how I try to live my life. And it's been inspiring to see how we do that on a, on an everyday basis.

Bekah: 10:56

Yeah, I think that's great AVO advice and I wanna, um, turn to one of you. Your tweets and we'll link it in the show notes, but it was from February, I think, of this year, and it says, take care of yourself to bring your best each day. Stay active, well rested, eat fresh foods, hydrate, and maintain great relationships as much as possible. You'll write better code and have a lot better day today. And I just love that so much because I feel like we often get lost. Um, in all the heaviness of the stuff that's going on around us or the stress of learning or the stress of getting a promotion and all of those things. And it can be really hard to stay well-rounded and balanced. And I think one of the things I've always been most impressed with you about is that you seem to do a really good job of that. So, so can you talk a little bit about how you kind of maintain that balance? Cause it can be really hard.

Alex: 11:49

Well, thanks, uh, for, for thinking. I do a great job of it. It's definitely a volatile thing. There's no, there's no doubt about it. I actually got to, uh, my office 10 minutes before this podcast, so, uh, there we go. Um, but. You know, I think it's just important to, to acknowledge our humanity, but then try to do our best. Um, I think if we're prepared, then we're just so much, everything's so much easier. So, um, just, uh, trying to do your best to know what your goals are and try to attack them and have fun doing it and, and, uh, and bring your best to that. You know, I think sleep is such a underrated, under talked about thing. It just. Of course makes us so much better and people cut corners. And I think we all do that at times and that's, that's perfectly fine. But there's certain things that we really just need to do on a regular basis. And, um, your performance is ultimately what should inspire you and help you remember that. That's true. I mean, and that's, that's how it is for me. Like, cause when I, you know, go through my day and I'm able to do all the different things I try to do and, and then. Do it pretty well, do it with a decent amount of smoothness. It just, it just shows me the, the importance of why I do what I do and, uh, how important I can, the impact I can have. Like, ultimately we do the things that make us our best to have an impact, right? So when my impact is strongest, I feel my best and I feel like I'm, uh, I'm giving something that really just. Adds more value to people's lives and, uh, my own. So ultimately that's what I wanna to, that's where I wanna be as much as I can. And I think when you can align your goals with that idea or whatever that is for you, it can really help you take care of yourself to, to bring that and be that.

Bekah: 13:45

I love that and I know that we have a lot of people who are looking for jobs, especially now, um, because there have been so many layoffs, so many new folks coming into tech, and so what. Advice would you give them when they're kind of on that part of the journey that feels really frustrating. They're overwhelmed, they're, you know, putting out tons of resumes or they're working really hard and they feel like they're not making any progress, like they're stuck. Uh, what would you say to them?

Alex: 14:15

Yeah, I think it's important to document the small wins, right? Just let's say you get an open source contribution merged into a project. It could be a big one. It could be a small one, ultimately. Even though some things are less, they seem less tangible. There are wins, there are things that are probably happening. I remember initially, of course in my tech journey wanting to get interviews and then, you know, not getting them and then finally getting them and I was thinking, oh yes, great. I've got interviews. So that's the first step. So you have to, you have to take it in steps and realize that. No one just got to the top of the ladder. They, they climbed up each step. They didn't skip steps to get to the top of the ladder. I mean, in, in a real life situation, right? So maybe, maybe they can skip steps in tech or, or in some parts of their lives. But on a real ladder, no one skips steps. And ultimately that's where we all are in the, especially in the beginning of our tech journey, we're on a ladder. And so you gotta just, Do what you need to do and stay positive and, and find that balance, get that rest and, and do something outside of tech. I think we're always so focused on tech. We're always so focused on code and this tool and that tool and all these different things that are the new hotness, right? So getting a, getting away from that can help you get better into that. As odd as that sounds. Um, so it's, it's really important. It's, it's really how we avoid burnout. It's how we persist. It's how we bring our best. I, I know I, we've talked about that. So it's, uh, just stay positive. Try to try to get outside of tech. Try to do something that gives you that smile, gives you joy. And then go back to tech with that feeling, with that, um, greater sense of appreciation and then see how you go.

Bekah: 16:12

I was laid off, as you know, about five weeks ago, and the. I, I've been trying to rediscover all of those things that you're talking about, Alex, because I think at some point I just kind of started letting the weight of things crush me and I like physically, I feel so much better now and I'm trying to also build in good habits. We've mentioned Arthur Doer's talk a couple of times on the podcast about burnout. Uh, and he was a guest a couple of weeks ago, or this will be a different season. Uh, he was a guest last season. Um, But one of the tips that he either said in the talk or we had in a conversation after the talk was, um, to avoid burnout, you have to prepare good habits before going into the next thing. And so before I move on to the next role that I'm taking, I'm trying to like reinforce those good habits. What are the good things that I could be doing every day? And building on that. So then when I do get into another role, I don't, I don't let myself fall. Slide back into these things that were just really stressing me out and like literally felt heavy on my shoulders. And so, you know, part of that is, you know, finding those hobbies. Somebody asked me, oh, is my son Like, well, what are your, what are your hobbies? What do you do? I'm like, I don't know. I got four kids. Like, you are my hobby. But even like taking a 10 minute walk outside every morning, that's been something that I found to be. Really impactful. And during my day, and it's, it's 10 minutes, you know, it's not a huge bit of time. And some days, some days it's really cold. It's getting warmer now in Ohio. But, but um, I think like that idea of making sure that you have those things and building time into that is really important. And I think that's also something that you do really well. And one of the things that I find refreshing about, You're like following your Instagram, right? Like you're posting exotic fruits and I love to see it, you know, cuz so much of our community on social media and tech is so tech focused. And to be able to see, hey, there's other cool things out there that we can talk about and it doesn't have to be tech all the time actually like is really refreshing.

Alex: 18:30

Yeah, I really like it because I love other things. I mean, we all don't just love tech, at least I think. And um, you know, it's great to love tech and we can always dig into tech, but there's other things to life. There's, I like fruit, I like basketball. I like taking care of myself. I like my friends and family. I like traveling. I like languages. I mean, everyone has, has their handful or, or more of things and, and that's what we need to. To have fun with. I mean, we're not always just gonna be working. We're not always just gonna be coding, and we should be coding and we should be enjoying that whole process, but we. Be well-rounded people. We wanna be more than just developers. And, uh, I think it's important. One thing you, you mentioned the 10 minute walk. It doesn't have to be a big time investment. Five or 10 minutes can, can really do a lot. It could be stretching, it could be meditating, it could be going for that walk or going for a quick run, quick sprints. Something that really resonates with you, that doesn't necessarily take a lot of time, can make a big impact on your daily reality.

Bekah: 19:38

I think I have to draw the line at sprints we can. Sprints are hard. I did sprints the other day and my lungs hated me for the rest of the day, so, um, Yeah, I, I think that that idea is really important and I like the idea of being able to celebrate your little wins. And I was talking to somebody recently who's been searching for a job for a while, and they were kind of getting, they were really discouraged, right? But they had an interview and I said, I. Having an interview is a win, right? And celebrating each of those tiny things becomes important because you can't, you're right, like you're not going to skip to the top of the thing. And when you're going through that process, the interview process can be really grueling, especially for your first job.

Alex: 20:29

Mm-hmm.

Bekah: 20:30

celebrate those, it's going to become really hard to. Bring your best self to the interviews that you are doing.

Alex: 20:39

It's very true, and the interview process I think is. Maybe the most grueling part of the process, even more than learning all this stuff. I think, um, just sometimes we make it more personal than just business, because ultimately it's just business. And if a company makes a decision, it's not necessarily a reflection on you, but of course you have control over how you perform in the interviews. So, uh, that's a thing where I think you really wanna be gentle with yourself. You wanna just understand that. It's a business decision. It's not a personal, like you're a bad person. I'm not gonna hire you decision. It's just a decision based on what's best for the business. And I think removing that personal aspect is will allow you to really just move with so much more brevity and, and get the result you're looking for a lot faster.

Bekah: 21:29

Yeah, and I, I've heard circumstances of, you know, people putting out hundreds of job applications and getting really discouraged by that, but I recently heard. Listen to an audiobook. I can't remember who it was by, but they said they look at resumes for 30 seconds and then if you're interesting, they'll Google you and look at your, like, what? How you show up in the search results for a minute. So you have a minute and a half. And so I, I think, I know that it's really hard when you're putting out so many resumes and cover letters to get down on yourself or to be constantly tweaking it. But, but the fact is like, 30 seconds is not a whole lot of time to really get to know and understand someone. And so, you know, finding those ways to be positive is important. So, you know, what are some of the ways that you were able to do that as you were interviewing?

Alex: 22:22

That's a good question. I think, I think there was a lot going on in my life when I was trying to, the, the majority of this journey getting into tech, you know, COVID was going on and, uh, living at this apartment that I no longer live. It just, you know, I think it was, uh, Just trying to fit in the time to, to, to do this. And, uh, as far as staying positive with that man, I think it was up and down. I think there were times when I really just felt, what am I doing here? Am I gonna be able to get this thing I'm looking for? And there were times when I would code and do stuff and I just thought, you know, this is so cool. And I'm really just, I'm making contributions to open source. I'm, I'm building this React project. I've built this Madlibs game. I think it was really, All over the place, in all honesty. But I think what kept me positive was just the fact that I, just thinking back to when I started thinking back to when I found the joy for front end and just development in general, um, and just also remembering, like, I remember for some reason when I was really young and I was reading something, I, I remember I learned about what APIs are and for some reason that stands out for me. And that just something is, that I think is cool and something that I always remember. And so I just know like. Where I come from with this and why I'm here and why I'm doing what I'm doing. That ultimately is what guides me. But, um, I think it was really up and down. There were times I felt really great about my resume and what I was putting out there. And there were times when I felt like I'm just going through the motions and this thing is just spinning around and not not going anywhere. And um, so I think just sticking with it overall, despite how you feel is, is the way to do it.

Bekah: 24:08

There's, um, A like trending audio on Instagram reels, that's on a bunch of, I think it's like, well, I've got like the weightlifting algorithm, right? So those are the majority of the videos that, the reels that I get. But, um, it, it, it kind of talks about the same thing like, Nobody else is gonna show up for you if you don't show up for yourself, right? And sometimes it's going to be easy and sometimes you're going to see that progress, and other times it's gonna be months and you are not going to see that progress. And so it's not about the gains, it's not, it's about you get up and you have to do it. And that's really, really hard sometimes. And that's why I think like forming those good habits and trying to stay, have a positive mindset is really important. And then, In those times where it feels impossible to do that. That's why having a good supportive community around you is so important because there are times that you feel like, Hey, I can't do this. I cannot submit one more resume or do one more rep or whatever, and then someone. Someone come. There's the, okay, so I'll tell a weightlifting story about, I don't remember. One time I was deadlifting and like couldn't move it off the ground, right? And then one of the guys from the gym came. He's like, come on, you got this right? And I was like, all right, I got this. And then I did it, right? Like

Alex: 25:29

Yeah.

Bekah: 25:30

there was, I was the same amount of strong that I was three seconds ago. But having somebody cheer me on give me that little bit of confidence that I didn't have in myself was enough for me to lift that very heavy thing off the ground. And I feel like that's a really good metaphor for why community matters.

Alex: 25:51

Yeah, I mean, I think that our own self-confidence is our biggest catalyst, and what that person did was instilled self-confidence within you. So, um, falling in love with the process is, is important. And I think that's, A big part of my, uh, my reality. But, uh, if you are self-confident, then like you could be not even the best developer you could be, not even the best weightlifter, whatever, but that confidence and that that. If you have it, people will know, and it, you'll exude that confidence and you'll be able to be that much better off. You'll really just stand out and you'll, uh, you'll be, you'll be that much better because you're believing in yourself. And that's, that's a big part of, I think, getting into this, uh, software development is just remembering that you're worth it. You're here for a reason, you have a place here. And, uh, just standing that ground and, and making cementing it.

Dan: 26:48

I love that so much. I was actually like, I wanted to go back a little bit to some of the stuff we were talking about when you were talking about, um, how important sleep is right to your, your outlook and everything. And, and I totally agree with it, but I, I was wondering as a person who sometimes maybe struggles with some of that balance and some of the sleep stuff, if you have any specific. I don't know, habits or whatever, you know, to, to help yourself get the right amount of sleep and get, you know, and like figure out that cycle and get it, you know, like in good shape.

Alex: 27:19

Yeah, so it certainly goes up and down for me as well. Uh, one thing that I think is helpful is kind of turning off all your screens, uh, as early as possible. Our screens are very stimulating, lots of different, uh, blue light and all that fun stuff, dopamine. so the sooner we can get away from that and kind of start to chill and, uh, you know, Get into maybe a self-care routine, like turning off your screens and then, you know, cleaning your teeth or, um, sometimes that's what I'm doing. Or I read my, I read a book, um, like, you know, certain people, sometimes books wake them up. Sometimes books will chill you down. Depends on the topic. Depends on the person. Um, maybe it could be a stretching routine. I just, one of the big things I would say, like I said, is turning those screens off. Um, finding that centered space, um, getting away from what you were doing on those screens, the topics like just kind of mellowing out in any way. Uh, that, you know, for me, I like to clean my teeth and read a book. Um, I know everyone's a little different. It could be a nice little stretching routine. Um, maybe some kind of like hot compress on your eyes with a towel. Could be a nice way to chill and, uh, mellow out. But, uh, those are my preferred ones.

Dan: 28:35

Nice. I like the idea of like doing the hot compress just at, at night every day. That's, that sounds really nice. It sounds pleasant.

Alex: 28:43

Yes. Um, I don't go for that one at night too often, but it's a good one. I like that.

Dan: 28:50

uh, I wanted to echo what you said about stretching before bed. Actually, advice my therapist gave me when I was having some trouble, like falling asleep was like just a simple stretching routine. Um, and. And it helped so much. And it was, it was so weird cuz it wasn't like I was laying in bed like, oh, my muscles are sore, or something like that. You know what I mean? It, it wasn't really like directly related, but it's just like, well, we all know our mind and our bodies are obviously very much connected and uh, it made a big difference for me. Uh, so I think that's good advice too. And that's, that's all I had to say about that.

Bekah: 29:22

Yeah, and exploring just different ways to wind down to get your mind and your body prepared to go to sleep, I think can be, can be really hard. That's a skill, right? It it can be really challenging to be able to do that.

Alex: 29:37

Well, I think it, it's a habit and it's built by consistency. I think consistency. Is discipline, if that makes sense. People talk about discipline, but I think ultimately consistency makes discipline so easy. So just make it a habit and try to stick with it and it'll, it'll get easier over time.

Bekah: 29:58

Yeah, I find that I'm really good at things like that until I, uh, fall off track and then it becomes really hard to get started again. Like, you know, I'll, I'll eat super healthy for like six months straight and then I. I go visit a friend and get totally off track, and then it takes me like two months to get back on track.

Alex: 30:21

Yep. It's, it's real. Um, depends on your level of commitment. I think that's where you realign with your why. And then boom, it's, you get back on track. You, you jump back on the train. Um, but you really gotta resonate with your why and, and connect with it. Reconnect with it as you need to, to get you back.

Bekah: 30:42

Yeah, I like that idea of reconnect with your why, and I think that's part of, you know, the issues that I was really facing in the last. Six months with stress is like not knowing what the why was. At some point I lost that, and then it became really hard to get back on track and then doing just like a lot of, I would say, self-destructive things, not just like low key, right, bad habits. Not sleeping well, not doing things that I know enrich my life and lead to good decisions, you know? Um, and then just kind of going with it because it lost that idea and didn't know how to, kind of like, first of all, I didn't realize that I lost it. And second of all, once I did kind of. See, I wasn't really sure how to recalibrate after that. So do you have any thoughts on, you know, if people are in that situation, how to kind of like figure out what that why is? If they're feeling like, I don't know what it is right now.

Alex: 31:44

That's a good question. Um, I think just, uh, consider what drives you. Consider what makes you wanna wake up in the morning. Try to try to see where your passion, your fire comes from, and then, Define and align your goals in parallel with that? I am, you know, cause I'm gonna get up every day and, and dig in and love and, uh, go crazy about the things I love all the time. Like, that's just, I feel like my life in a sense, like the things I love are the things that drive me and the things that keep me going and, uh, keep me engaged. And so if you fall off, think about. Why, what do I love? What do I, what do I wanna always do? What am I always keen for? Right? And then just redefine your goals. To bring your best for that. You know, like could be, you know, I love running every day. I'm gonna, you know, train to do this 5K, or, you know, anything. I love writing. I'm going to write a hundred words, 300 words that are really solid and really verbose. In a, in a, they, they say a lot. These 300 words are really meaningful. Um, so developing tangible, small, doable things that, Uh, you know, go along with your passion. Uh, really can, can get you back over time.

Bekah: 33:16

I like that. I found one of the things too that's been helpful for me recently. You know, when you're in tech, everything moves so quickly. There's always something new to learn. There's always. Always a different way to grow. There's a new podcast or there's a new audio book that everybody should read to help you improve your life. Right. And I felt like probably at some point I was on information overload, like constantly learning, and sometimes it's just too much. And so now if I take a walk in the morning, or if I run, I'm usually listening to music. And before I wouldn't do that. I'm like, this is a good time for me to learn something new. I'm like, you know what? My brain just needs to chill out for a little bit. And, and that's okay. You don't always have to be doing something to that seemingly improves your life because the simple things sitting down and enjoying life, you know, listening to my kids laugh or, you know, walking around the neighborhood without. Like having a secondary mission for learning or whatever is important, maybe just as important as learning something new.

Alex: 34:22

Oh yeah. I mean, finding the times to relax and, uh, bring more levity and just, uh, have fun laugh. I think it's, it's just as important as the work and the consistency. Um, So definitely make space for that. Hopefully you've got family, friends, uh, around you. Um, if you don't, then just try to seek them out. You know, my sister and I started doing fruit lux because, uh, we wanted people that were interested in fruit to come together and build a community of, you know, vegan and fruit loving people. And so that's what we did. And, um, we've, you know, made tons of friends from that. So, uh, make it, if it's not there and just, uh, create what you're looking for.

Bekah: 35:04

I love that. Make it if it's not there. I think that that is really, really great advice. And sometimes it can be scary, sometimes it can be an accident, but like finding those things that enrich your life are really important. And if you see something that you wanna do, then find a way to put it into action.

Alex: 35:23

Exactly.

Bekah: 35:25

I remember once I was talking to, this is kind of circling back a little bit. I was talking to a mom who was learning how to code and she was saying how hard it was for her to retain the information. She's like, I'm going over the same stuff all the time. And so he said, okay, well, like what is your process? Walk me through how you're learning. And it was something like, well, you know, after my kids go to bed, I will code from.

10: 35:47

00 PM until midnight. And then I wanna get some coding in before they wake up. So I'll get up at four and then I do it from four to six. I'm like, you're getting four hours of sleep. That's why you're not retaining anything. And it, it often feels like there's this race to get ahead. Right. And I even felt coming outta my bootcamp, I remember very naively thinking like, oh, once I land a job now I'll be able to breathe. Like, no, you are, you are not going to be able to breathe. It's g it's about to get even harder. Um, and so again, back to that idea of building good habits, but like, don't undervalue that there's a process and it takes time. And for every person it's going to be a different path and it's going to take a different amount of time. Crushing your, your body and your spirit is not going to help you get there any faster.

Alex: 36:41

Yeah, I mean, I think. I can echo the same thing from my own experience. I mean, just being about four months into my, my first job here, I feel like it's taken me up to this point to get into the flow and into the, um, ways to really optimize my schedule and my week. Um, you know, soon after I started it was the holidays. So, um, that took me away for a couple weeks and, uh, outta. You know, building up the flow and, uh, understanding how to be my best and knowing, you know, how much to take on work-wise outside of work and, you know, all that good stuff. And, um, you know, it does take time and you really wanna respect that process and you wanna just know that you're gonna get to a better place. You're gonna level out, you're gonna find that balance and, uh, It does take a good amount of time, but that's what good things take is time. And just remember that cliche and you'll be much better off.

Bekah: 37:39

And what does that adjustment look like for you, going from not having this job to starting it to where you are now?

Alex: 37:48

Um, well, I think a lot of it was just understanding how much to do in the evening. Cause I think that, like I was doing a lot. I would jump on the Virtual Coffee co-working room. I would really try to go to the meetups and stuff that happened virtually, uh, a lot and. Like, that's great and there's a time and place for that. But when you're working, you need to kinda give yourself some time to chill. Give yourself some time away from the screen and make sure your, your body's right. Make sure you're getting that rest that we, that we talked about. Um, so I think that it was really just. The first couple months still trying to engage and still trying to really kind of do what I used to do, but then realizing and pivoting and saying, okay, now I need to take a little bit off my shoulders. I need to just do a little bit less, but uh, still show up, still have my presence, be known, and, um, just bring it more for when I'm working. And then that's the most important. And it also helped me because when I was initially working, I was a lot in, I was in the office all the time, but now I'm hybrid, so, I'm in the office today, but I'm only in the office twice a week. So I think that really helped me kind of give myself more time, let myself do other things to make my, like, get my workouts in in the morning and stuff like that. And, um, so I think it's just been a progression. And luckily where I work, they're really open-minded. They're really, uh, receptive to, to what I have to say and, and what I know will help me and. So we're just working on it together and it's getting better over time, which is fantastic. It's been, it's been a fun process.

Bekah: 39:20

Yeah. That's really great to hear. I, I know that, um, one of the things that I've. Done to kind of help with that balance too, is when, when you are working remotely, you are in front of a screen all the time and then meetings are in front of a screen, right? You're talking. So it's just never ending. So I do have the under the desk treadmill, but I started taking, um, meetings with my camera off and going for a walk. So I'll just use my cell phone network. Put in my earbuds and then I'll listen to the call and be outside. And for me, that's kind of like a compromise. You know, I'm getting away from the computer, I'm still doing what I need to be doing for work, but this is better than me sitting in front of the computer all day long. Um, I still need to figure out a good outside setup because the glare on my computer screen is really bad. And then my umbrella always like, Flies away. So one of these days I'll figure that out.

Alex: 40:23

Yeah, that'll be good. That is a smart way to take meetings. Um, I would like to try that too. I'm sure that's a nice way to, to get away from the screen, but still be working.

Dan: 40:34

Yeah, it could be. I used to do that. A lot. Uh, now, now there's too much screen sharing. I feel like it's hard. You know, I, I have to have my, pull my phone out and like, look at my phone and it's really small or whatever, you know, every, every time I try to do it. But I used to do that a lot. Uh, I would actually go in the backyard. I, I played disc golf. I would go and practice, like practice putting and stuff while my, while I was on calls. Um, one of my problems with that is I start not paying attention to the call when I'm, when I'm not, when I'm doing other things. So that's, you know, it, uh, it has, it's something you, I, I would encourage people to try, try different things though, and see if it works. You know, sometimes it might not, might not end up working, but, uh, sometimes it, you know, it can. Um, but I think that's good advice. And like, yeah, getting outside is like just the best thing every time I. I'm working long and I'm like, why do I feel like crap? You know? And then I go out, I walk outside, I'm like, oh, you know, like, I'm like, oh yeah, the sun. Like I don't, I don't have any windows in my office, you know, so it can like turn into this weird, you know, cave situation. And, um, sometimes it's hard to like notice that thing while it's happening, you know? It's like that. Um, what is it? Like the, the frog? Boiling in water slowly, or what, I forget what, like how does that metaphor go? But like, yeah. Where, where you don't really notice it, you know? It's like, and, and I think, I feel like that kind of thing can creep up on you in lots of different ways, not just if you're in a boiling cauldron. Um, you know?

Alex: 42:00

Yeah. Yes, certainly.

Bekah: 42:02

cauldron.

Dan: 42:03

Right, right. Uh, yeah. And like getting outside is just like, for me especially, it is just always. It always improves my, like, everything, you know what I mean? It improves my, my like my mental whatever capacity and my mood and my energy. I don't know, like it's good advice, you know? I also, I'm always trying to figure out something to work outside and yeah, there's like glare and, you know, whatever. I don't know.

Alex: 42:30

Yeah,

Dan: 42:30

It's tough, I'm sorry, I'm just rambling now. But like, there is, there's a, a disc golf course in Ashtabula, Ohio that's like, I like playing there, but they have like, in one of their pavilions wifi, like there's a sign that's like free wifi, you know, it's just like in the middle of this park, you know? I'm like, whoa, that is really cool. I'm not gonna like drive to Ashtabula to work, but, uh, You know, I don't know. Um, I could see that, you know, maybe I'll, maybe I'll try to push for that, you know, in Lakewood somewhere,

Alex: 42:57

Yeah,

Dan: 42:58

you know, get a picnic bench under, uh, a tree and I feel like then you're, then you're in good shape because you don't have the glare, but you don't have to worry about your umbrella flying away. You know, it's the best, best of both worlds.

Bekah: 43:10

just plant a

Alex: 43:11

go.

Dan: 43:13

Just gotta watch out for, uh, mean squirrels, I guess.

Alex: 43:16

Yeah,

Bekah: 43:18

I will befriend the squirrels.

Dan: 43:20

Sure. Yeah.

Alex: 43:20

they'll try.

Dan: 43:21

right, that's the right call, you

Bekah: 43:22

of the squirrels, I

Dan: 43:23

Ooh,

Alex: 43:24

Don't let 'em take your food though, then you'll be okay.

Bekah: 43:28

I, I think along the lines with all the stuff we've been talking about, one of the other issues that's challenging is to turn work off when work is done. And I think it all comes back to this idea of forming good habits and finding those things that enrich your life. And I was even thinking recently with remote work. Most people are not doing a commute, right? I mean, maybe they'll go to a coworking space or coffee shop or something like that. But in some ways a commute is a really good time to like detox from work and then move on to that next thing, right? Like, I'm going home and now I am home Bekah. I'm not like developer Bekah or whatever, you know? Um, cuz I can't like, My office is in my house, and so it's nearly, it's, it's always there, right? I can always step back into work, and I am frequently guilty of. Working beyond my hours or up until the point I have to pick up my kids like to the minute and then I'll just jump in the car and then doesn't really give me time to turn off. And I was talking to my old manager yesterday, maybe, uh, about different w work options that I have right now. And um, one of them would be contract work. And he said, well, you know, one of the issues for you is going to be. Turning, turning off like you're, you are going to want to do more, so you really need to guard your hours and make sure that you're not working beyond that amount of time because it doesn't serve you to, to do that. And it's true, like that is for sure. One of my weaknesses and one of the, the things that I, I need to put into have it now is maybe like before I go pick up my kids, Go take a 10 minute walk and then that, that becomes my, my kind of commute time, right? To clear my mind, be done with work, and be ready to move on to you know, who I am outside of work because work should not be defining me.

Dan: 45:31

Yeah, I. I agree with that a lot. And that's, I think that's some, I mean, I've been independent sort of work from home ish for a very long time, you know, but a lot of people started doing this when the pandemic happened. Uh, and I've, I've, you know, I think it's a pretty common thing. Um, the. There's this, there's this concept of like, uh, going through a threshold, like actually like spiritually, um, can, can have a, have a make a, make a difference. Make a transition in your, in your mind, you know? And, um, that's like, I feel like that's a big part of this is, is when you have a separate workplace and a separate living space, it's, he's, it's like a lot easier to turn it off. And you're like, well, okay. And you can even like, leave your computer at work, you know, and then there's no, no temptation, but, uh, It's hard. It's hard when you're, when you're home and it's all, it's all there and it's, it's, you know, plus phones and everything. You have your emails. I dunno. Yeah. It, it can be really hard. Um, we were just talking about that in Virtual Coffee, um, in my breakout room on, on Tuesday.

Alex: 46:33

on that note, I think, you know, sometimes even designating a part of your house, like this is the workplace. This is my desk, this is my office. And then just, you know, I. Zoning it out like that. Like this, this is the, the small space where I do my work and I'm gonna shut this computer down and then, you know, I'm only gonna use my personal computer or phone or what have you. Uh, having that separation, um, can also sometimes help with, with getting away from work and then just being you, the person.

Bekah: 47:08

That's one thing I never do is shut down my computer. So that's, that's probably a good thing I should try every once in a while.

Alex: 47:16

I've been pretty consistent about it

Bekah: 47:19

Nice.

Alex: 47:20

yeah, it's, it's helps like when I'm, when I'm done, I. Close it down. I might use my second screen from work for my personal computer, but that's about it.

Bekah: 47:33

That's great. Uh, I love this idea, all the things that we talked through today about forming these good habits. Because it enriches us as people. And like you said in that tweet, being able to take care of yourself is really important to being able to, um, you know, like be a human being that you wanna be, but also to be a good performer at work. Because when you feel healthy and positive and happy, that kind of goes everywhere in your life. So, um, it's not something that's, Just like, well, it's just good for this part. Like, no, it's, it's good for all of you. So as we move to the end of this podcast episode, what is one word that you would use to describe yourself?

Alex: 48:21

I'd say inquisitive.

Bekah: 48:23

Can you tell us a little bit more?

Alex: 48:25

Yeah, I think that I really just have a great hunger for knowledge. Um, so I have my interests and like I just dive so deep, you know, whether it be fruit, basketball, languages, um, traveling. I just think that like, I try to find parallels with those interests. So, you know, uh, for example, fruit, you have a lot of different, um, culture and language. Uh, Uh, sprinkled into that. For example, like my sister's favorite Mango is a Burmese mango and has a Burmese name like it, and you know, it has a different name here in the us. Uh, so just being able to find, uh, to find those parallels, dig deep, um, on those types of things, I think is really something that. That just brings me so much joy. It brings more of a more depth and more of a story to, to what it to my life. And, uh, I don't just want my life to be just simplistic and, uh, face value. I like to kind of give it, give it a story and say, you know, this person, uh, dude did this and uh, um, then now I'm eating a product of that based on this story, you know, for example. Um, and, you know, I just think that. I'm always interested in new things and I think I always have so much to grow and learn in my life. Uh, so just loving that process and, uh, continuing that process over time. And then just trying to share that I think is just why I would say that I'm inquisitive and that's just, that's just a big part of my myself. Yeah.

Bekah: 50:00

I love that. That was a really beautiful way to put that. Well, thanks Alex for joining us today and for talking through all of this with us. I know that I. I feel, uh, in a happy place right now after having this conversation, and I hope that everybody else who listens does as well.

Alex: 50:14

Yes. Thank you guys. It was fantastic. I love this community, so it's so great that we can have these conversations and, and share the amazingness that we're cultivating together.

Dan: 50:27

All right. Thanks Alex.

Bekah: 50:29

Bye.

Alex: 50:30

All right. Bye.

Dan: 50:35

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Ashley Mulder. If you have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, buy some VC merch, and check out all of our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.