Carmen - Tech Industry Friendships: Leveraging Connections for Growth, Challenges, and Opportunities and DevOps!

Show Notes:

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Transcript:

Bekah: 00:06

Hello and welcome to season eight, episode three of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is a podcast that features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee is an intimate group of developers at all stages of their journey, and they're here on this podcast sharing their stories and what they've learned here with me today is my co-host Dan.

Dan: 00:31

What up Bek? Uh, hey, how's it going?

Bekah: 00:35

It's going well. How's it going with you?

Dan: 00:37

It is going fantastic. Kali f fantastically. It's going well. Well, I feel like going fantastic is not good, you know, proper grammar, right? Because. It's fantastic as an adjective and not an adverb. And so, yeah, but fantastically is a weird sounding word, so. Anyway, I'm fantastic. Um, anyway, today's episode features Carmen Kolohe and she is a DevOps engineer. And, um, we had a really great time, uh, talking with, with Carmen. Uh, she had a lot of. Great things to share about her process, like how she got into tech and how she got into DevOps in particular. And I thought she had a really unique perspective on, on making connections and, uh, you know, involving your community and your network and furthering your career goals and furthering your developer journey. And I dunno, it was, it was cool. It was, it was a good conversation.

Bekah: 01:35

Yeah, I appreciated that she talked about being an introvert, and I think she's mentioned that she might be shy too. And so it was a good example of what happens when you take yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit and how, uh, impactful that can be on the rest of your career. I.

Dan: 01:51

Totally. And not, not just taking yourself out of your comfort zone, but ways to do that. Um. But feel more comfortable doing it, which is sort of, I don't know, uh, a weird thing to say about going out of your comfort zone, you know, but, uh, ways, ways to make your, maybe it's just ways to expand your comfort zone. I don't, I don't know. Um, but either way, uh, we'll let Carmen do the talking for, for us, uh, cuz she did a good job explaining it and I am not doing a good job explaining it.

Bekah: 02:21

No, it was really great to learn from her in this episode and learn a little bit more about what DevOps is and to, I think, inspire some people who are in the middle of their career journey. we start every episode of the podcast, like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random check-in question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Today's random check-in question is if you could have a superpower that only worked while you were sleeping, what would it be? My name is Bekah. I am the developer experience lead at Open Sauced from a small town in Ohio. And I think like the superpower. Okay, so there's two options here. Like the ability to like really engage with your dreams and remember them, like those become actual worlds. That would be pretty cool. Um, or having my whole house cleaned while I'm asleep. So that one's not as cool, but definitely practical and I would appreciate that. So I think, I think I'm gonna have to go with my house being cleaned when I woke up.

Dan: 03:43

Uh, all right. That's fair. You know, that makes me weird. Like, do you remember, um, What is that King Arthur Disney movie called, uh, the Sword and the Stone? Um, you know, where the, like the wizard, the Merlin starts doing the like, you know, but they get out of control after if he doesn't pay attention to him. That, that like worries me, you know? You know, like, like when a Roomba, I don't know, gets, gets into trouble, right? So

Bekah: 04:05

that in King Arthur? Is that in Fantasia

Dan: 04:08

No, no, no. It was, well, maybe both actually. I'm not sure. I haven't, I watched Sword Stone a lot more than I watched Fantasia, so. I'm not gonna say it's not advantageous, but I'm thinking specifically of sword and stone. But anyway, the like non-conscious control over something that is like cleaning things, you know, like could be, it could be problematic, but in general that does sound nice. Um,

Bekah: 04:28

my house is pretty messy, so I don't think it would get that worse.

Dan: 04:31

Right. Uh, okay. I'm Dan. I do development. I live in Ohio and in Cleveland, I suppose. And, um, not, I suppose that's where I live and, uh, what I do development, I, I think, um, I think I'm gonna go with like Wolverine level, you know, regeneration, healing, you know, so you could go to sleep and like anything that's like wrong or broken, you know, gets fixed up while you're sleeping. Um, that was the first thing that popped in my head. And, and I, I haven't thought of anything better, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with, yeah. Regeneration, you know, healing. Healing powers while you're sleeping seems, seems nice. Maybe it'd fix up some of my. Just general aches and stuff too, you know, I could pop out of bed in the morning, uh, you know, I dunno. Uh, so yeah, that's gonna be my answer. And, um, here's our guest. Carmen, go ahead.

Carmen: 05:21

Hi. Hi friends. I'm Carmen, I'm a DevOps engineer in Portland, Oregon. And, uh, Bekah you actually inspired me for, and it's like, uh, have either of you watched Rick and Morty?

Dan: 05:38

A little bit.

Carmen: 05:39

Terry. Well, scary Terry is like a reference to uh, Freddie Krueger, but it's not like I'm gonna like hurt people in dreams. I just wanna be in other people's dreams, you know, and like travel through dreams, I guess, and other people's dreams type of thing. I think that would be cool cuz my sister and I both have very vivid dreams. It'd be cool to actually like be in her dream and make my own choices and not, she tells me what I did in her dream, you know? And then it's like, I'm sorry that I did that, or, you know, I would've done it differently probably.

Dan: 06:14

Uh, yeah, that made me start thinking about like, inception, you know, or where they like design, design the dreams and are, act actively like, you know, acting in them and stuff. Uh, some, you know, some scary possibilities though if you're able to go in anybody's dreams, you know, uh, like Steeler Secrets or whatever, I suppose. I don't know. Um, but I think that'd be cool. Um, Yeah. Especially if you could do it with a buddy, you know, be like, Hey, let's meet up.

Bekah: 06:40

Maybe they have to give you a password,

Dan: 06:42

Yeah. Oh,

Bekah: 06:43

in the dream that allows you to be in their dream.

Carmen: 06:47

Uhhuh Uhhuh.

Dan: 06:48

your handshake.

Carmen: 06:49

Yeah. That's so

Dan: 06:50

I love it.

Carmen: 06:52

I, uh, I had a very vivid room this morning and it was, I was taking a test and my phone kept going off during the exam, and I kept having to turn it off. Come to find out I was actually turning my alarm off on my phone that was trying to wake me up, and I turned off four of them. Luckily, I set like 10 of them, so I was like, what a, what? Dreams are just crazy. Huh?

Dan: 07:19

funny. Your subconscious is, you know, just telling you you need some more sleep, I guess.

Carmen: 07:24

Oh, yeah, and, and that I have an exam coming up.

Dan: 07:27

Right, right, right.

Bekah: 07:30

Well, Carmen, we're really happy to have you here with us today. Thanks for being here. And we always like to get started with your journey into tech. So how did you get from Pretech Carmen to where you are now?

Carmen: 07:45

Yeah, thanks for having me. I've been listening to the podcast for a bit now. Uh, so how did I get to here? Um, well it all started in Poland. Um, I was born in Poland and uh, I grew up in Chicago and only, I don't have a Polish accent, but I do have a Chicago accent. When I say Chicago Hot dog or Costco. Other than that, you would've no idea where I'm from. Uh, and yeah, I, uh, I initially, uh, got my degree in psychology. I've always wanted to help people and, uh, you know, that was my goal. Like for early on, very early on that I was gonna get my doctorate, I was gonna get into psychology and, uh, yeah, that I got my degree and I realized that's not what I wanted to do. So I decided to, um, you know, I, I graduated, I was living in Hawaii at the time, and, uh, then I graduated, you know, lived my best life in Hawaii and then decided to travel through Europe for a bit. And, uh, then when I got back from Europe, um, I was just, uh, in Colorado, just hanging out in Colorado. And, uh, my friend, uh, my childhood friend shows up and she's like, let's learn html, c s s and JavaScript, just randomly one night. And I was like, sure, why not? Like, what else are we gonna do tonight? You know? And uh, it was really cool. It was fun. Uh, And, uh, that's when, uh, I decided to, uh, move to Seattle with, uh, a partner at the time and go to, I, I researched this one bootcamp that I really wanted to do because, uh, then I could do the bootcamp and work part-time at a restaurant or something and then, you know, just not be, be able to do both. Um, then 2020 happened. Uh, That fun time and we were in Seattle and that was like ground zero, right? Uh, so everything shut down. Um, and I was like, if there was a sign from the universe that I should just. Do nothing but learn something new or do a career change, it's now I have the opportunity to do that. Uh, so, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I got into the bootcamp that I wanted to, and it was all remote. Um, they did a hybrid between Seattle, Portland, and, uh, people that were outta state too. And, um, it was hard. They call it a bootcamp for a reason. Like it's not a joke. It was intense and uh, and you know, you have everything on top of that. You know, you have covid happening. There was wildfires going a around, so the air was toxic with disease and smoke. Uh, so it was a tough time. And, uh, you know, uh, towards the end of it, I had no idea how people made money. Just Cody, I'm like, you're gonna pay me to code. Like, how does that work? And, uh, in this last like hail Mary attempt to like, figure things out, I, um, I sent an email to a really good friend of mine now, but, so, so I guess, let me back up. The, the bootcamp they would do, uh, um, Like lunch speakers during lunch, and one of them, uh, was, uh, this fine gentleman named Jonin, uh, and, uh, in fact, you know, jonin. Yeah. Uh, he, uh, he's a developer relations, uh, person. Great human being. Um, just. Great person. Uh, and I, I sent him an email, you know, it'd been like five months since he did the lunch and learn, but I just, I sent him this novel of an email and I was like, my life is a dumpster fire right now. Uh, but it keeps me warm and um, it gives me light, you know? Cause I, I've made a bunch of friends. You know, we were all trauma bonded through our bootcamp too, cuz we, all we had was each other and we all had to try and figure it out and get jobs from this somehow. Uh, and Jonah actually, he replied and he was like, these are really good questions. Cause I asked a bunch of questions like, how do I make money? What is this? You know? And he's, he, he responded. He's like, these are great questions to, um, that I feel a lot of other people just starting out in tech would. Would want answers to. And uh, he was like, would you be open to like, come on, uh, my Twitch stream and ask them. And like then other people can have these answers available to them as well. And I am introverted and very shy and I was like, uh, can I bring my friends with me? And I brought two of my friends from the bootcamp cuz I figured they also had questions to ask. And you know, it's always good when you're an introvert and you have an extrovert friend, cuz then it takes the pressure off of you. Uh,

Bekah: 12:37

Yep.

Carmen: 12:38

yeah. So, uh, then, uh, then we, uh, did this stream. It turned into like a weekly thing, uh, all of 2020. Uh, it was really good cuz um, we were all really isolated. You know, you couldn't go outside. Uh, And, uh, met a lot of people through it. Like, uh, Nick that goes to Virtual Coffee. Um, it was just a safe space, uh, you know, and that that's what Virtual Coffee is, uh, as well. But we were more like virtual happy hour cuz we would have drinks. Um, uh, it was late, late, it was at night. Uh, so, uh, yeah, we would just, we would a, take questions from either, um, the chat or, uh, We had questions obviously, cause we were still in bootcamp. Uh, and it turned into a really wonderful thing that I, I, I cherished a lot. Um, it was a good time. And, uh, then, uh, yeah, so the bootcamp, uh, the bootcamp happened and with this bootcamp they offer an internship and I got this internship. Uh, and my task as an intern was to build a full stack app. Uh, and I did. Because, you know, a great poet once said, you know, you only get one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted. One moment. Would you capture it or let it slip? Right. And I did. Um, I

Dan: 14:02

That's cha, that's chaser, right? That's a,

Carmen: 14:06

You know your poetry, huh?

Dan: 14:08

that's, I'm an English major. You know, don't like to brag about it too much.

Carmen: 14:13

Uh, but yeah, I, I saw the opportunity and I built it and at the end of my, uh, internship, I was in one of their meetings where they were going over their like quarterly, uh, Goals. And in quarter four, uh, they were looking to hire a junior developer. And I was like, Hey, let me help you meet this goal sooner. Like thi right now, like, how about you just hire me and I'll maintain this app? Cause we were about to deploy and everything like that. And they, they said yes. I'm like, you like me, I like you. Like, not ruin a good thing. And, uh, yeah. Uh, I got hired as a junior developer there, and it, it was, uh, for a nonprofit. Uh, and, uh, it, it was, it was really, really cool work cuz the, the work I was doing was helping people and uh, that, that's when I knew like, this is how I could help people was like in tech and especially in 2022 cuz businesses were closing down. Like people were trying to figure out ways to get online to do anything. I was like, this is how I directly can help people. And, uh, the. The first job meant a lot to me because it also goes like full circle. Uh, the friend that, you know, came over that one day and was like, Hey, let's do this on a Friday night. Uh, her life was saved. Uh, so the nonprofit is for organ and, uh, tissue, uh, donation and, and transplantation, um, and procurement. And that friend, her life was saved by a liver donation when she was a baby. And so it just was like a full circle moment. Like my first job was, you know, doing something that, you know, that got me to this point. So it was really cool. Uh, and yeah. And then, uh, the DevOps engineer decided to take, uh, um, an opportunity elsewhere. So the position was open. I was like, Hey, I like you, you like me? Like, how about I try, try the DevOps position, you know, instead of hiring someone else, like, well, let's see if I could do it. And they, you know, they believed in me and, uh, I, I stepped up and, and started doing DevOps for them. And then, uh, and then, yeah, and then I, uh, got another opportunity offered, uh, where I could, um, grow and work with people at a, you know, a larger scale work with, uh, um, Leadership, uh, and, uh, so, so I left that place and, uh, I'm at this place now as the DevOps engineer and uh, it's really great. It's really cool stuff. So that, that's kind of, it's.

Bekah: 16:49

That's awesome. What an incredible journey. Um, before we move on, for our listeners, can you describe what a DevOps engineer is and what they do?

Carmen: 17:04

Me, uh, gosh, uh, DevOps means everything and nothing, not nothing, but, uh, means something different to everyone and every company depending on what their ne needs are. Uh, some people think DevOps should only be there at the very beginning or at the very end, or, You know, but it's, uh, it's a, it's a Jedi way. It's a, it's a, it's a mindset, you know? Uh, overall I think, uh, how I see DevOps is like, you see the whole big picture and then can like zoom into like one specific part, whether it's development, whether it's deployment, uh, you know, all of it together. Um, so, uh, It kind of just, and it's, you know, those famous words to it on every team. Someone always says, it depends. It depends. So a DevOps engineer Yeah, they're, they're not, uh, you know, I, I, I'm not just, uh, focused on, you know, front end work, but I can be, if you need me there, I can be there and I can do it. Or if it's backend work or if it's, um, deploying or if it's networking, you know? So, uh, yeah. But overall it's, it's a way of, of thinking of things. Uh, yeah.

Bekah: 18:21

And what kind of interested you in moving in that direction?

Carmen: 18:26

Um, because I feel like I was already doing it as a junior developer because we were a small team. It was just me and the DevOps engineer and, uh, All I, all that was missing was access to Azure. Then I feel like I was, you know, basically helping, you know, do the work too. And yeah, it, it's good. It's nice to see the overall picture cuz then you can. Code more mindfully if it's, you know, front end work or backend work because you see how it can impact things or how, you know, things, uh, have to scale or, um, yeah, so that, that's why I move towards that, that route.

Dan: 19:14

I think you'd find that in a, in a lot of small teams where people are wearing lots of hats, right. And, I've certainly, like, I never considered myself a DevOps engineer, you know, but I've certainly done a lot of things. Engineer does. Right. You know, and so like, I, I like your description of, you know, seeing the big picture and, and sort of having, having an idea, uh, like a bird's eye view of the whole ecosystem, right. Of your app or your company or, or whatever. Um, cuz there's lots of pieces that go into it. Um, and it's a, I I just, uh, I enjoyed your description of that. It's, it's cool. Cool.

Carmen: 19:47

Thanks.

Bekah: 19:49

So in a lot of this journey, you talked about the people who have been a part of that journey and it seems like, you know, developing those relationships and those friendships have been really important in your journey. So, um, just what advice do you have for our listeners out there about building those relationships and especially like you talked about being an introvert too, so how does that play into it and, and how can other people. Get that energy too.

Carmen: 20:21

Uh, I think what really helped was, uh, Having the bootcamp, I went to be remote. I never did remote school. Uh, so like for, for example, when when I got my, my degree, I, I think I made two friends in college. Because I was so shy, but when I, when I did the, the bootcamp and so I got the, when I got my first job, I had to sign my paperwork in Seattle, but then I drove to Portland because I made so many friends in Portland and everyone, almost everyone in the cohort all met up at a park. And we all, you know, I don't, we all just wanted to be friends and that's why I moved to Portland. Uh, and I think, uh, I think it's for, for introverts. it's easier to make friends, I guess, because, uh, remotely or like online, because you know you're in your safe space. You know, and, uh, if something feels awkward or unsafe, you can just close the window and be like, whoops, power went out. You know, like you, you have, uh, you have more escape route, I guess. But, uh, joking aside, um, what was really cool was when I was first starting out, um, I just started reaching out to people when Twitter was a thing. I don't know if it's still a thing, but I'm not on Twitter anymore, but when I was like, I would watch like a, a, a YouTube tutorial about how, how to use some. Some package, some N P M package, and I would directly go and message this person and be like, Hey, th thanks this tutorial really helped me do this. It's really cool. Like, would you have time to like, you know, jump on a call or, or talk more about it? And you, I was so shocked at first how many people were like, yeah, let's do it. Cuz people just wanna nerd out and, and talk about the work that they're doing. Cause they're excited and they, they love what they do and. That's how um, I made a lot of, um, friends was just reaching out to people cuz they wanna talk about the things that they're excited about building. Uh, and then Virtual Coffee too, like, uh, so we, uh, with the stream end ending in a sense of, you know, everyone life happened and, uh, So, uh, you know, everyone found jobs and, uh, moved or, um, were on different time zones, so we stopped doing the stream and then I, I really leaned on Virtual Coffee, uh, you know, so, and then same thing, I would just reach out to people and be like, Hey, like, do you have time to talk about this? And yeah, it's, it's been, I've had a really great experience meeting people that are just very welcoming and kind and, uh, wanna just. Build cold stuff together.

Bekah: 23:10

Yeah, I think that's great that it, um, that's a lot of my journey as well, and I didn't try to come into tech, but like one of the things that brought me here was the great community of people. So I was just kind of like learning a little bit on my own, started tweeting about it, and then people were so positive and like cheering me on if I had a problem. Somebody would wanna help. And I was just shocked because I had not experienced that in other ways. And like I, I think that it really did help, like one that I was online and so like that introvert to shyness kind of, it was much easier. But then I, I was even reflecting on this the other day, I feel like I have overcome a lot of my shyness in the last couple of years because of all of the positive interactions that I've had. And I think it takes like one person saying something positive to you to help you, like, move in the direction of like getting up the courage to ask somebody for help or sending that email like the one that you sent to Joann. And I imagine like that experience was it, was it nerve-wracking for you to send him that email with all of those questions?

Carmen: 24:21

Uh, Well, was it nerve-wracking? No. Cuz it was like my, like a Hail Mary because, uh, everything kind of was a dumpster fire at the moment. Like, uh, I had to move in three days across the. And live back with my, uh, with my parents because like, you know, I was unemployed and, uh, you know, at that point I was like, I will, we'll see what happens. And if, if they don't respond, that's fine, but it, it can't, it can't hurt to ask. Right. Uh, so that, that's how I felt. It's like if they don't have the bandwidth to reply, then. Uh, then they won't, but it's no harm to just ask, uh, this and then that. That's how I feel. It's like, you know, you just, just ask. And if someone has the time and the bandwidth to, to reply and you know, and, and be there to help you, they will. And I, I feel like the same thing goes to like when you're trying to find like a mentor or something. Uh, that was another thing that, um, I discovered, uh, well, I heard about was like, you should get a mentor, like that would help. And it's like, how does one get mentor? You know? How do you find that? Like, it's not like they're, you know, displayed or, uh, but it's, uh, it, it, it's a, it's just asking. And then if that person does have the time and wants to do it, they, they will or they'll say no, and that's okay too. Um, Yeah, I forgot. Was that the question? I think I, I think I went off on that one.

Dan: 25:53

We're big fans of tangents here at Virtual Coffee Podcast, so, um, I like. What you talked about with the mentorship too, that I was wondering if you could, um, talk a little bit more. You don't have to like share specific details if you don't want to, but, uh, about your experience like finding a mentor and you know, how that worked.

Carmen: 26:16

Yeah. Yeah. Um, since I was like on a, such a small team, uh, I. Yeah, I, I made it like my mission to kind of try and find a way to work with people. Not necessarily look for a mentor, but, well, once I stepped into like a, the, the DevOps position, I was like, I need a mentor. I'm by myself right now, and this is a little daunting. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I would just, uh, I reached out to some people and just asked, uh, if it was, you know, front end work or something, and, uh, I don't know if it was luck or, or what, but yeah, they were like, yeah, let's set up weekly check-ins and if you have any questions or anything like that, we can discuss it or work through a problem or uh, uh, things like that. But, um, I think it's just asking, uh, I don't know.

Dan: 27:14

Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so this was, these were people like you didn't personally know yet,

Carmen: 27:20

No,

Dan: 27:21

are, are the people you did know.

Carmen: 27:24

Mm.

Dan: 27:24

Yeah, you didn't know. And so it was like kind of a cold call, you know, not cold call make, that makes it sound bad, but like, you know, uh, sort of out of the blue-ish sort of thing, and you just asked, Hey, I am, you know, doing this stuff. I was wondering if you. time to be a mentor. I, I'm asking because I really don't like, this is something that I've thought about myself a lot and I've never got like, gotten through actually following through with it. And so I'm always looking for advice as far as like finding a mentor, uh, and that kind of thing. So that's why I'm, that's why I'm like, I keep asking about it.

Carmen: 27:55

Yeah. Um, I think when I was a junior developer, it was, uh, when we were doing the stream all the time, and there was one particular developer that showed up every time we did the stream and had great advice to give, uh, in the chat and just was like supplemental, like on, on top of like what we were, uh, what we were giving and uh, just. Uh, I, I just reached out to them after the stream being like, thank you for giving such great advice and being, you know, so supportive to others. Um, and then I was like, well, gee, that's how I asked there. And then, uh, for, for DevOps, it was, uh, through Virtual Coffee, just going to, to Virtual Coffee and then hearing, you know, you know, when you do the intros and then being like, Hey, like I, I, I just stepped into DevOps, or I have some questions. Or posting in, uh, in Slack as well with questions. And you know, the people that have the bandwidth will reply and then I would would message them and be like, Hey, like, you know, have some more questions. And do you, do you have time? Uh, yeah.

Dan: 29:04

I love that.

Bekah: 29:05

Yeah, I think that there are a couple of things that I. I just wanna make sure that we highlight here because it's said a lot of great things, like one, if people have the bandwidth, then they'll respond to you just. It can be nerve wracking or scary to send somebody a message and ask for mentorship. And sometimes people will respond and sometimes people won't respond, and that's okay. Like, that's not on you. Right? That's, they might not have that time or the capability to do that. Right. Um, so I think that that idea like reach out and ask you at the, the very least, They might say, Hey, I'm, I can give you a little bit of my time. Um, the second thing that I wanna highlight, you said you, when you reached out to somebody, I, I think that you said like, thank you for those answers. Those were really helpful. And so when you're asking someone for something, you know, it's nice to engage in that conversation a little bit first and let them know like that you do appreciate what they've given you already. And this has been a really great place. This might be a good place to start, like, uh, more of a relationship or deepen that into some sort of mentorship. And so I think that like there are also, you mentioned like multiple modes of mentorship, so that might be a one-on-one thing. It might be a conversation with a group of people. It might be Slack messages in a particular channel. Like all of these things are mentorship. Anything where you're learning and growing, I think. Is a form of mentorship, so sometimes it's important to think outside of what the traditional definition of mentorship might be.

Carmen: 30:45

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I agree. Because sometimes it's just having a place to rubber doc. It's like you have a question and then you write it all out, you know, and then you send it and it's like, oh, solve this. Thanks for, you know, being a great mentor. And it was just giving me this space to send this to someone. Uh, but yeah, it, it can take many forms and, uh, yeah. It, it's, it's. I think that was the, biggest hurdle was just to, uh, to know that, you know, just reach out and, uh, if they don't respond, that's okay. And if they respond negatively, that's not someone that you should interact with. I feel, uh, there's other options out there. Um, So, yeah. Yeah. Just, uh, making it less daunting to, to reach out to people that either have good, uh, good feedback or experience in things that you wanna learn or do. Cause more than likely they wanna share it with,

Bekah: 31:54

Are there any specific conversations that you can remember that really impacted your journey or what you know about DevOps?

Carmen: 32:01

I am still learning so much, uh, constantly learning DevOps things. Uh, I don't know. It, it's been a journey like, when we were talking about dreams too, it's like right now I, I was working in Azure previously and now I'm moving to a w s. And now I'm getting AWS certified. So my dream about taking an exam and my alarm going off is very, is accurate. I'm in the middle of studying for the, for aws, so

Bekah: 32:36

Wow, that's, that's a lot. Um, how are you balancing all of this with. Work and being involved in the community.

Carmen: 32:47

Uh, gosh. Oh, you know, it's, it's part of work. it's, you know, especially when you, you find a, a job that invests in, in furthering your education, cuz they know that it will, it's mutual. You learn, you know, and that, that helps, um, your work. it's setting, uh, calendar events, you know, like this is the lot of time I have for coding stuff or stuff in the code. And it's like hard stop, don't keep, continue down the rabbit hole. And then it's shifting to, uh, to studying and then learning. yeah.

Dan: 33:24

Was it their like idea to get, get the AWS certification and all that stuff? Is it like a requirement or anything? Or is it just like, Hey, this might be fun or something, you know, like how, how did that, how. I least suggested Yeah. That, that,

Carmen: 33:38

and I was all for it. I, I love learning and it's really great and especially, you know, shifting. Uh, From, from Azure to aws. There's, it's, it's similar services. They're just name different things and it's knowing the differences in names and they're, yeah. So, but the concepts are all the same. How, how to, uh, work in the cloud. Um,

Dan: 34:07

How to connect all the pipes together. Just a whole set, separate set of acronyms to memorize, right?

Carmen: 34:13

so many acr. It's what one of the whiteboards says is just acronyms.

Dan: 34:17

Yeah. Yeah, that's one of my biggest struggles. Cause I don't like get into, into AWS stuff very often. And so every time I do, I have to like, refresh my memory on, on all of it. Cuz it's like, cuz they internally re refer to everything with their acronyms, you know? Um, and yeah, it, it can be frustrating if you don't, if you don't have it all in your brain. Uh, so that's cool. So how's study? So what does the exam like? Is it, what does that experience look like? Uh, not studying, but more of like, do you know what the exam is going to look like? Is it. An hour or I, I, I've never done that, so I, I'd be curious to, you know, what does an A certification entail?

Carmen: 34:55

Oh yeah, so I'm not sure how long it takes. I know that, um, you can choose to do it remotely, uh, and you need to have your laptop. Properly set up. And you know, they, they, this is all I've heard, I don't know yet. Uh, and you have to do a pretty rigorous process to prove that you're not cheating. Uh, and so then it's, people have been, uh, Telling me to just go do it. I in a facility, in person, because then it's less, uh, less of a headache to get like, to proof that, you know, there's no way you can cheat that, you know, your system is good, uh, to take it remotely. But I have not looked into it further. I'm still, uh, going through the tutorials to, to know all the acronyms.

Dan: 35:47

So, yeah, so it is a, it is like a sort of traditional.

Carmen: 35:50

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 35:51

Like one time test thing, like, like in school, right? Like, yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah, that's, I could see how your subconscious would get, start to get worried about something like that. I, uh, I haven't taken a test for a long, long time, so it makes me a little nervous just thinking about it.

Carmen: 36:11

Yeah, I knew I was in a dream though when like this Scantron like where you have to like shade in the bubble. It was like really big and I was like, this is ridiculous. Like this can't be real.

Dan: 36:28

Remember to turn your phone off, I guess, when you take the test straight.

Carmen: 36:31

Yeah.

Bekah: 36:34

I wanted to circle back a little bit, um, to what we were talking about before with meeting new people and friendship building. Uh, cuz I, I think one of the things that I. Heard a lot of people say that, especially people who are learning. I don't have the time to meet new people or to join communities. It's overwhelming. Right. I also went to a bootcamp. I was working, I had four kids and I was going to bootcamp at the time, and it does feel overwhelming. It feels like. You can't put one more thing on your plate. And I imagine in a similar circumstance, like what you're, you're working now, you are studying for this exam, it can be overwhelming. So in cases like that, why do you think it is important to still maintain those friendships or nurture those relationships that you've built?

Carmen: 37:23

Uh, yeah, because that's what friends are for. They're your support system, right. Uh, and it's, it's good to know that you're not alone. And, uh, that's why I make it, like I, I put in my calendar Virtual Coffee, 6:00 AM Tuesdays, you know, it's, uh, it's something that I strive to, to make because it's, it's. You know, you could, I could be lost in AWS world and I feel like, or nothing is working in the code. And, you know, you feel very isolated and then, you know, you, you, uh, you have a community to go to and be like, Hey, I've been down this rabbit hole too. And it's like, you're not alone. And there is someone that can, you know, either whether just to listen or to, you know, It, it's, uh, it's good to have if, if you have, if you can, uh, in some way or another, uh, whether it's, uh, going to an actual, like meetup virtually or, or in person or, um, staying active on a Slack channel or Discord. I, I was invited to a lot of Discord channels and that got overwhelming. I was like, I can't do this. I can't, um, be active on, on all of these discords. But, um, yeah. Uh, I found that was good. Or, or hack Tober Fest too. That's also a really fun way to, to meet people and to, to directly work on things and help each other out and, um, bond over, you know, a PR or, uh, learn something together. Um, that was another thing that I thought was really daunting at first, uh, when I first started off, uh, was contributing to like open source. I thought that was extremely daunting. Cause you don't know them. And I was working on a small team, so, uh, the whole, uh, poll request and, uh, everything like that wasn't as, uh, refined as some open source are. And that was another thing a, a friend and I did was we wanted to stream. Uh, maintaining an open source project on Octoberfest and, and, uh, humanizing. What, what a PR is that it's not, it's not personal, it's not a judgment on, on your code or anything like that. It's, you know, the person, uh, the maintainer, learning what you wrote, and then, uh, offering suggestions and then the, the author learning something new maybe from that suggestion. Uh, so that was, uh, another. Thing that I thought was, uh, neat to do with friends.

Bekah: 39:55

That sounds awesome. Are those videos still up somewhere or are they gone?

Carmen: 40:02

I don't know. I don't think so. Cause I think it depends. I could check, but Twitch, uh, Twitch doesn't keep videos after a while, and I think it's been two years since we did that. Uh, really wanted to continue doing that, but, you know, life happens and it's, uh, you know, especially, and streaming is, you know, a whole, whole other world in general because you have to make sure the, the stuff works and the sound is heard and the music is heard. And you both, no, you're both nodding.

Bekah: 40:32

It was literally last I decided to live stream this week. A couple of days ago, I was really struggling to like, focus. I was really tired and I was like, well, livestream and it'll make me accountable. Like I'll feel accountable. And then like my sound wasn't working, my video wasn't working. I'm like, this is not why I decided to livestream. So then I was navigating those problems live. Um, but it's okay. Like I did, I didn't end up getting that. I merged in my own pr. That's, that's just the way that I do things these days, this morning. So,

Carmen: 41:06

you're not alone. Like literally that was us every stream. Our sound never worked. We would go live with no sound, not know until someone in the chat would tell us that they can't hear us. And we just, so we knew we'd have a good stream. So you, you're not alone, but streaming as a whole other beast. And uh, I commend anyone that does it and maintains it.

Bekah: 41:32

Yeah, it can be.

Dan: 41:33

Oh, go ahead, Bekah.

Bekah: 41:34

No, you.

Dan: 41:36

I was just gonna say, have you been doing any streaming lately? Any code related stuff

Carmen: 41:40

Uh, no, it would be so fun to to, to get back into it. My, my friends and I, we, we talk about it. The friends that I, I did streaming with, uh, uh, we're such good friends now. I'm even in one of their weddings. Like,

Dan: 41:53

Oh, nice.

Carmen: 41:54

really cool. But, uh, it's, uh, No, no. Life happens. I moved and started a new job and someone else moved to Europe and we're on a 12 hour difference and it's, uh, it's been hard to, to stream. Maybe one day it would be, it would be cool to, to do again.

Dan: 42:17

can be hard to even, even if you're just doing it by yourself, it's can be really hard to keep, keep anything like that up, you know? Especially when you have other people involved. Yeah. Life, like you said, life, life happens. Can be tough.

Bekah: 42:29

Yeah, I think it's important to prioritize those things that. Are working for you too, right? And like I think sometimes when it starts to feel like that extra thing is a drag and you don't wanna do it anymore, or you know, it's just like overwhelming to think about it, then that's probably like the time to let it go for a little bit.

Carmen: 42:49

Yeah, I, I completely agree. That's how I felt, uh, about, uh, yeah, the first time I did hack Octoberfest when we were trying to stream it, maintain an open source, do all of the things, and it's like, this is supposed to be fun. If it's getting stressful, let's stop. Cuz it's supposed to be for fun. It's supposed to be to, to help people and educate people. But if it's starting to turn into a stressor, then it's, uh, no know your limits and boundaries and yeah, be kind to yourself. Um, cause something's gonna, Uh, yeah. Suffer in it.

Bekah: 43:21

Yeah, and I think. this is kind of a tangent, but like taking a personal inventory is something that we've talked about, uh, in the last couple of months at Virtual Coffee. Just to kind of see where you are, where you are, like what your needs are, what your strengths and weaknesses are, but also to kind of identify those types of things. You know, if you're feeling overwhelmed by is this, you might have needed that thing three months ago and it might have been really good for you in that moment, or like that community that you're a part of. That was really great for you last year, but it's not so great for you this year and like recognizing that like, hey, we change and we grow as people and we have different needs all the time. Figuring out like what is helping me to accomplish the things that I need to be doing every single day is really important, but also like sometimes really hard to identify If you don't stop for a second. And, and really think about like, what is enriching my life right now? What is helping me be the person that I wanna be, rather than like, this was helping me three months ago. It should still be helping me now, and then trying to power through it.

Carmen: 44:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree.

Bekah: 44:34

Um, okay. So I guess maybe one way that we can start to wrap things up here is talking about that introverted experience and what advice you have for individuals who are feeling really nervous about coming into tech and interviewing for their first or second job. Because I think that, you know, being an introvert makes it. Maybe a little bit harder to interview for that job and to be able to find those connections. So do you have any advice for how to approach that in a way that doesn't seem overwhelming?

Carmen: 45:14

Um, gosh. It's, uh, it's hard for me to answer this one because both of my, like interviews in tech have been very, uh, non-traditional because, uh, first one was an internship and it was just like, I like you, you like me, let's be a happy DevOps family type of thing. And then the second job was actually through, uh, a friend I made in Virtual Coffee. So, uh, both of them were very non-traditional because they were like, I know that you know the things cuz you talk about them in Virtual Coffee. So I don't need to interview you technically about the things, and it's like, I wanna work with you. Uh, so I guess, uh, that's one way to go about it is make friends and then friends wanna work with friends because you, you get along, you know, uh, you, you know how each other. Tick kind of. So it's like, you know how to approach each other. Uh, so, so I guess that's one way of going about it.

Bekah: 46:18

I, I think that's really great advice, right? Like making those connections can help ease that interview process for sure. And that's been. All of my jobs in tech too, I think. Uh, and it, it didn't start with meeting people. It started with tweeting about it and then writing about it and then talking about it in different ways. And so maybe like there's, I. There's a place where you feel kind of comfortable or you don't feel as uncomfortable or as exhausted from those interactions, and you can still have a community and you can still meet people if you're blogging about it or if you're writing about it, or if you post a YouTube video. You don't have to have that face-to-face interaction. But I do think that it's easier to have that face-to-face interaction once you've engaged with people on other platforms.

Carmen: 47:12

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, and also you're interviewing them, like, do you wanna work with. Best person, so I guess it goes both ways.

Bekah: 47:22

Yeah, absolutely. All right, Carmen, thanks so much for being here with us today and sharing your story. We really appreciate this. I think that it's gonna be helpful to a lot of people who are going through some struggles now and have in the past, and feeling like they're not alone in that experience. So thanks so much for sharing your story with us today.

Carmen: 47:42

Thank you.

Dan: 47:43

Thanks Carmen. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Ashley Mulder. If you have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, buy some VC merch, and check out all of our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.