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Season Six Finale - Talking Hacktoberfest with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk

Season 6, Episode 9 | October 13, 2022

It’s the final episode of season six of the podcast and we’re bringing it to you live with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk!

Show Notes:

It’s the final episode of season six of the podcast and we’re bringing it to you live with Bekah, Dan, and Kirk! We talked a lot about Hacktoberfest with many side-tracks and segues in between.

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Transcript:

Bekah Hawrot Weigel:

Hello and welcome to Season 6, Episode 9 of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. We are live because this is our season finale and we are very excited to be here with you. Virtual Coffee is a group of developers at all stages of their coding journey, and they're here on this podcast, sharing their stories and what they've learned. But really it's the last episode of the season. And so, it is the three of us sharing our stories and what we've learned. So, we'll do an intro question in a second. But do you want to -- does anybody wanna give us an intro question? Hey, Debra-Kaye!

Kirk Shillingford:

Do you want to use the one from VC -- oh, that might be a spoiler for when this was done, but like, today-

Bekah:

Yes.

Kirk:

-is -- oh, I didn't hear Dan cuz he wasn't in my room and I don't think he could make it today, Bekah. So the question is, do you like sour? And if you do, what is your favorite sour food? And Bekah is already making faces. So --

Bekah:

[Chuckles] My name's Bekah. I'm a technical community builder from a small town in Ohio. And sour is the worst. Like, I am pretty open about different tastes, but I draw the line at sour. They -- it -- if I drink like any kind of sour beer, I immediately have heartburn. And sour just makes your face go like ... and that means it's bad. So, hard pass on sour. I will take bitter all day long.

Dan Ott:

Alright. Hi, I am Dan. I do computer things in Cleveland, and, yes. I don't judge foods based on facial expressions, you know, in general. I- I- I like- I like some sour things, you know? I- I definitely like a little bit of sour in a lot of things, you know? I -- like, we had tacos the other night, squeeze the lime up -- lime on top of the chicken. Really, really good. It doesn't make, like, the whole taco taste sour, you know what I mean? But it's just like that little dash of --

Bekah:

Well, I like citrus. That doesn't really count as sour.

Dan:

I -- okay. I mean, like, it's- it's just like a little touch of it, you know what I mean? That's- that's what I mean. But I don't like, like, I- I- I was saying this in- in the room, I, you know, I'll eat like a- like a sour patch kids, you know, for instance. Which is like, sort of sour. It's mostly-

Bekah:

[Chuckles] Worst.

Dan:

-sugar anyway. But like, definitely my last choice of- of -- from the Halloween bucket that my kids always have full of candy somehow all year round [laughs]. So, yeah. That's- that's my answer. I'm ambivalent. Citrus, I'm a huge fan of. And I think sour is part of the citrus thing, you know? So --

Bekah:

I refuse to say that.

Dan:

I can't just say I don't like sour.

Bekah:

Because I love citrus.

Dan:

[Chuckles] Fair enough. Waddup, Kirk?

Kirk:

I have- I have a lot -- you've been saying so -- okay. So, first of all- first of all, my name Kirk. Let's just get outta the way. That's not -- that's irrelevant at the moment. In our room, immediately, we get the discussion of does citrus count? And I said, yes. Because I'm gonna say this thing that I hate. I don't wanna yuck anyone's yum. Which now also feels like a sour referen-

Dan:

Didn't- didn't we make a rule that you weren't allowed to say that anymore? [Bekah laughs]

Kirk:

That was so long ago, you know? But [unintelligible] --

Dan:

[Laughs] It has to be one of the worst phrases in the entire world.

Kirk:

But also, like, everything you said about why you don't like cit- like, I- I want sour things like once a year. And when I eat, I do make the faces of like a baby when they're given -- like, I- I do all of -- I can't help it. And then everyone around me just laughs at my face. Like, I just fully lean into that, you know? It's like those old lemon drop candies. Like, I just -- I do it and then, you know, like my soul just like shutters and then it's great. But it's like pepper, right? Like, we're not supposed to eat ... pepper, right? Like, pepper just want -- like, birds- birds can't -- birds don't care about capsaicin. So plants made spicy so that mammals wouldn't eat the food. Birds lead the food cuz birds travel farther and distribute the seeds farther, like, when they poop. But, like, humans or mammals -- but we're just like, "Hey, this, like, hurts. But I'm kind of into it." And that's why like we have [laughs] -- so, in a word, we're doing stuff that we're not supposed to be doing. I mean, like, sours supposed to be like, this is probably not meant to be consumed, as is bitter. But here we are. So just lean into it. It's bad because it's good. It's bad cuz it's good. Put it on a t-shirt. [Bekah chuckles] That's my intro.

Bekah:

I've never heard anyone say it that way. And also, I will do what I want with this stream because I have the power. So ... if you're listening-

Dan:

[Chuckles] Yeah.

Bekah:

-I discovered that I can change the way things look, and this is going to be fun.

Kirk:

This is what?

Dan:

Mm. That's great.

Bekah:

So, welcome everybody to this live podcast. Thanks for all those who are joining us live. If you have a question or if you have a topic that you want to hear us talk about, go ahead and put that in the chat and we'll do an excellent job of keeping up with it at all times.

Dan:

We promise.

Bekah:

Alright. Why don't we get started with what's going on now at Virtual Coffee? So- so Dan is in his pumpkin jacket. So I think it's appropriate if he starts this conversation.

Dan:

Hello, my name is Daniel T. Pumpkins. Yes, I've- I've started referring to this as my- my pumpkin regalia. I don't know if I'm using that correctly, but -- oh, we lost Kirk. He'll be back. Oh, there he is. I don't know where he went, but he's back! Hello. So --

Kirk:

My internet has been --

Dan:

Alright. Well, hopefully we don't lose you for good. You're back for now. What is go- oh, what is going on in Virtual Coffee right now? It's Hacktoberfest. And so, we've mentioned this a couple times on ... I don't know if we've mentioned it recently on the pod. We've been talking about it a lot in Virtual Coffee. So Hacktoberfest is a month long sort of celebration of open source, right? And, it's -- originally, it's -- I mean, originally and still is, run by a company called Digital Ocean. And they do a monthly thing every year. And the object is really -- so for- for contributors to submit four pull requests in the month of October and have them accepted, you know, hopefully. And if you can hit that goal, then they, you know, celebrate you and usually send some swagger or something like that as well. And they do a really good job of doing this and providing a lot of resources for contributors and a lot of resources for open source maintainers and things like that. And so, we, a couple years ago, decided to piggyback on that and basically help -- our- our idea two years, three years ago, was to help our members get, you know, get the- the Hacktoberfest accomplished, you know? And so that was -- yeah, that was three years ago. We did this the first time in Virtual Coffee and we had a lot of fun. And last year, we had a- a huge number of people join us and contribute a whole bunch of awesome things to open source projects. And we're doing it again. And so, we have add Virtual Coffee -- we have a Hacktoberfest, you know, room where we have been chatting and sharing lots of, like, open issues and, you know, providing help and support for people. And we have the Hacktoberfest coworking room, which is a special version of our coworking room. You know, for people who are Hacktoberfestering. And ... yes. The word. And, what else's going on?

Kirk:

Festering.

Bekah:

Yeah, I think it's just festing.

Dan:

Hacktoberfestering.

Bekah:

You're just festing.

Kirk:

Yes.

Bekah:

Hacktoberfesting.

Dan:

Mm-mm. I'm Hacktoberfestering. And that's -- listen. Who has the jacket, okay? It's me [laughs]. And so, I make the rules. And I, you know, all ... decisions come through this jacket [laughs].

Kirk:

When you invited me to this podcast, I thought I was coming up here as a creative consultant. So, to hear this now was really --

Dan:

Mm. Well, you know, what are you gonna do?

Kirk:

Like, I'm executive producer. So --

Dan:

Yeah. And so, we're halfway -- almost halfway through October, and, you know, we've had -- we -- I know a lot of our members have been doing some contributions. We have our traditional issue on the Virtual Coffee site that people can complete to, you know, get one- one of their pull requests in to start us off. We have some videos on our site for some of our Hacktoberfest things that we've done so far this month. And, yeah. Did I miss anything about current event?

Bekah:

[Laughs] Julia put in the chat, "Dan makes the rules, Bekah controls the settings, and Kirk is an unwitting victim, again." [Laughs] Sorry, Kirk.

Dan:

[Laughs] Sorry, not sorry. Yeah. That's the --

Kirk:

No, no. That captures our dynamic pretty well. Julia is right. She's insightful.

Bekah:

I don't know. I feel like I'm gonna push back a little bit against Dan makes the rules.

Dan:

I mean, you can push back all you want, but still, I have the jacket, and so, what are you gonna do?

Bekah:

I --

Dan:

Exactly.

Bekah:

This is- this is how my criminal story starts. I will come and take-

Dan:

[Laughs] [Inaudible].

Bekah:

-the jacket. If that's where the power is, I will acquire the jacket [Dan laughs].

Kirk:

Before you came on the stream back, I was saying like, "Dan in that jacket." I dunno if anybody remembers, like, "The Mask"?

Bekah:

Yes.

Kirk:

It's, you know, Stanley Ipkiss. It's a similar sort of, you know, there's this garment in beauty of chaos. And then he knows he's not supposed to put it on, but he does. Then he becomes this entity, you know? And then we just all have to deal with it until the jacket comes off. It's like the Hulk, but for Hacktoberfest. The Hulktoberfest.

Dan:

I feel like Hulk-

Bekah:

Hulktoberfestering?

Dan:

-loses clothes as he turns into Hulk though, you know? So [laughs] --

Kirk:

That's true.

Bekah:

So, the anti-Hulk? [Chuckles]

Dan:

No, I'm not anti-Hulk. I love Hulk. Also the shoutout, "She-Hulk" has been really awesome too. So --

Bekah:

Octoberfest [??]. That's exactly right, Tom Cudd.

Dan:

Yes, Tom Cudd. And, yes. So -- oh, Tom, I saw that you followed us on Twitch, I think. I think I get emails for some reason every time somebody follows us. So, if you haven't followed us on Twitch, please do. If you haven't followed our podcast, you can find the link on our site, virtualcoffee.io. And follow-

Bekah:

Slash podcast.

Dan:

-us on Twitter too. Oh, slash podcast, yeah. There's links. But yes, slash podcast if you wanna go right there. We have a bunch of people in the chat that we've actually talked to on the Virtual Coffee podcast, so, that's kind of exciting.

Bekah:

Yeah. And some of our maintainers are here as well. And contributors for Hacktoberfest. So, how's everyone's Hacktoberfest going? Kirk, are you Hacktoberfesting?

Kirk:

I'm Hacktoberfesting in the way -- and maybe this is really relevant. I guess you've had three Hacktoberfests before. I had one where I was a maintainer and that was super cool. And I have one where I was just a contributor and that was also super cool. And this time, I feel like most of what I'm doing has been mentoring. And that has also been super cool. So I'm really, you know, I'm doing all the things. I'm the real -- I'm getting the full experience just spread across three years and that's like totally okay, right? Which I feel like has been the real -- it's always sort of the theme of Hacktoberfest, but especially this time, you know, like people are like, "What do I do?" Or, "How to -- I'm like to ..." it's -- you can do whatever you're comfortable with or whatever you want. Or like, if you do wanna get outside of your comfort zone, you know, like, there's a difference between stepping outside your boundaries or pushing your boundaries and, like, jumping far away from it. Don't- don't do that. But, you know, if you can find a little way to move it, then I think it's been really good. It's been really good. I think I'm --

Bekah:

I feel like I take the opposite approach, where I'm very resistant to doing many of the things in Hacktoberfest. And then like two days before, I suddenly decide I'm going to do all of the things. Let's start new projects. Let's resur- resurrect projects I haven't worked on in a year. Let's mentor. Let's contribute. I'm not really sure why, but I can't help it. I just, I- I can't not do the things cuz they're just -- they look so exciting.

Dan:

Yeah. A-a-and I- I like-

Kirk:

That's true.

Dan:

-I- I'm kind of with that too. It -- one of the things is -- one of the things I like about this is that it ... well, helps me, you know, having like a date that a thing needs to be done by or whatever helps me do it. And that includes like making a bunch of issues for the rep- for the Virtual Coffee site, for instance, you know? I- I- I know in my head a bunch of things that need to be done and we can use for an help on. It always takes time and a little bit of like mental energy to write those issues and- and so sometimes, they just, like, I just -- they get put on the back burner. But since we had Hacktoberfest coming up, it was a really good time to, you know, put some effort into doing that and- and creating those issues. And it's been really awesome having peep- having people contribute back to the site, you know? And we- we always have some contributors throughout the year. But it- it's ... I dunno. It's been- it's been fun having a bunch of different people and all that, like, shoo- should [??] -- kinda goes to show, like, creating -- create the issues, and probably people will come [laughs] and help out, you know, as a maintainer, you know what I mean? It's- it's like, one of those things where we now have a bunch -- I mean, there- there's the- the member issue that everybody -- all of our Virtual Coffee members are welcome to, like, do. But the features and stuff, it's- it's- you know, they need to have the- the- the options to work on, to do the work, you know? And so, it's been really fun kind of doing back and forth with people and- and getting some new stuff going. So, I've been enjoying that a lot.

Bekah:

Tom says, "It sounds like we're learning from the current Virtual Coffee book club, 'Start Finishing'". Which ... I wanted to get, but I couldn't get in an audiobook format. And I knew, if I ordered a hard copy, it would sit with all the piles of hard copies of books that ... I have yet to read.

Dan:

Yeah. I need to --

Kirk:

I have it in audio format. That's the -- that's the only way I could figure out how to read. But I did find an audiobook format and it is really good.

Dan:

Nice.

Kirk:

I think I just found it on, like, Audible.

Bekah:

See, I don't have Audible or understand how to use Audible. So I don't audible things.

Dan:

What?

Kirk:

Let the be known Bekah that all [unintelligible] call.

Bekah:

Audible -- well, cuz you have to like sign up for Audible, right? And then you pay money for Audible, and then you have to pay money for the books too, right?

Dan:

Yeah. You get one free month, pretty sure.

Bekah:

That's not --

Dan:

And then you can pay month --

Kirk:

Yeah, it like, you're supposed to [unintelligible], like, you have a book token, and you can, like, "Hey, here's this token. Give a book." And if you don't use your token for the month, they, like, stack up. And if you want more books, more than the token, then you have to, like-

Bekah:

Pay for them.

Kirk:

-get those ... well, you just have to, like, [unintelligible].

Dan:

Yeah.

Bekah:

Yeah.

Dan:

But you pay for the tokens. So all books cost the same amount. It's one token. Anyway, this is our Audible corner [laughs].

Bekah:

We are not sponsored by Audible. No, we won't be.

Kirk:

If you'd like to --

Bekah:

I'll never be sponsored by Audible.

Dan:

My gosh.

Kirk:

This is a weird [unintelligible] [laughs]. Listen. Any one out there, any of the podcast sponsors, you know, if you- if you sell mattresses or shaving stuff or --

Bekah:

BetterHelp Therapy. That's on all of my true-crime podcasts.

Kirk:

Datadog, if you're listening ... if you're listening, Datadog, sure. Listen. We're -- we are- we are ready. Yeah, no. But the book -- I'd just to say like ... I've been -- the- the process of making -- and we talk about this a lot, like, the process of making our people ready for contributions is a denses [??], like, it's nontrivial. Evergreen shoutout to Nick Taylor. I love -- Nick Taylor's been super active in the Hacktoberfest channel. And he and Jörn have their project that they've been working on. But I also really appreciate how, like, as soon as Nick sort of like spots something's wrong, I feel like he's like, "Yeah, I should just turn this into an issue." And he just, like, does it. And I feel like part of -- I probably make things more than they need to. In my head, I feel like I need to craft like the perfect issue every time. And I feel like he's willing to just, "Well, I'll get it up there. If I need to fix it, I'll fix it later. But it's there." And it's like, "Yeah, you can grab this if you want." And it may end up being that he was -- the maintainer might end up doing this thing, but it's like, you gave people a chance, like, try it. I don't know. That sort of ties into one of the aspects of having an open source repo is, like, that willingness to let go. Like, I have to let other people sort of like be a part of this thing and they don't think like me. And like, I can put stuff in an issue, but at the end of the day, like, they're the ones figuring it out. And you sort of have to be okay with that. And I think, if you're somebody who has ... I wouldn't say -- issues is a weird -- if you have difficulties of sort of like letting go of certain things, like, making it open source is a great way to realize like, "Oh, I can't pour this cuz I'll -- like, I'll stress myself out." You sort have to kind of set it free and let it be a community thing, an organic thing. And it -- I really like seeing -- yeah, like the virtual [coffee] IO website. Like, I can really say, "Oh yeah, a bunch of people have, like, helped make this what it is and it's really cool."

Dan:

It is really cool [chuckles].

Bekah:

[Chuckles] I think, you know, the idea of letting it go and putting it out there is a really good one. Because I think too, like, sometimes as a maintainer or somebody who's been working on a project, you might get stuck on an idea and somebody might come along. They might have a better idea or they might have a different approach. And I think that one of the fun things is, like, keeping an open mind about how- how people will understand the project, and taking their feedback, and building in a process to have that feedback. Because it's not just about helping and supporting contributors. I think, it's about learning as a maintainer too. And that's been one of my favorite parts. I actually think that my favorite part of Hacktoberfest for the last three years has been being a maintainer and being able to interact with others and con- the -- all of our contributors, to learn from them and to hear what they have to say about things. And that was an experience. The first year, I know that I didn't- I didn't realize how much I would learn from being a maintainer.

Kirk:

Yeah. I think that's a great way to phrase it. Maybe like entice people if you're considering like, oh, like a lot of people will frame this like, "Oh, I don't know enough to be a maintainer," right? I'm like, "But if you have an idea and you wanna see it to a fruition, the best way to learn about it might be to, like, invite other people to help you. And you just- just get that for free. Like, you get- get help, and you get people who are gonna teach you stuff, and you get to finish the thing you wanted to work on." Like, it's all- it's all upsides here. And it's weird where people work on a project like, "Hey, thanks for letting me work on this." I'm like, "You just -- I didn't know how to do that. That's why I made the issue," you know? "This is great. Now I do, and it's done [chuckles]." I wish I could do this for every aspect of my life [chuckles]. Like, my choice and other obligations, you know? It's like -- or it's just all the times where it's like, "I don't know how to do this thing and like doing it by myself feels like a real struggle." And we talk sometimes on the Slack about, like, neurodiversity and just, like, people having different modes and the things we have to do sometimes just to figure things out. And yeah, sometimes the answer is, "Oh, I just- I just need some help on this." An open source feels a lot like that. I wanna do this thing. I need some help. And then, they help me. Bekah, [Bekah laughs] no one noticed that your camera went off. I promise. Except everyone noticed.

Bekah:

It left for a while. This keeps happening. I did a live stream before this. And I couldn't give my camera to work. And then, midway in the middle of a sentence, mic -- I just totally disconnected. It was- it was awesome [chuckles].

Dan:

[Chuckles] Hmm, alright.

Kirk:

It started [unintelligible]. We had this -- we were talking about, like, old tech. And then we -- it just became, like, weird UIs. And then just, like, all the weird quirks of technology that we have to deal with. And then I'm like, "Okay, cool. Now that we've just been dunking on technology for the last 10 minutes, everyone here who works in this industry can get back to talking about it." Sometimes -- but I guess, I don't know. It's because we like the stuff, that we also notice the stuff, and we talk about it. But that's okay.

Bekah:

I always love it when people in the wild make a comment to me about technology. They're like, "Oh, technology," you know? I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I know." [Bekah and Kirk chuckle] Sorry. Those --

Kirk:

Trust me.

Dan:

Yeah, no. I- I said in the- in the chat when we were talking during that discussion, there's nobody that hates computers more than developers. Like- like, it took my- my wife a while to really understand that, you know? But now, she's like, you know, she'll have -- like, her- her grandma who asked if I could, like, help her -- I mean, I don't -- I'm fine to help her. But like, she's like, "Oh, he- he does computer stuff. He loves computers." And she's like, "No, he- he hates computers." I'm like- I'm like, "I really do." [Chuckles] I'm like --

Bekah:

I had a friend ask me to help with her printer. And I was like, "Oh, no, I don't- I don't do printers. I- I -- when my printer doesn't work, I just buy a new one. Because that's easier than trying to fix existing printers."

Dan:

I worked IT at- at ... college. And you know, so the job is mostly just like going around to professor's offices and fixing their stuff. And, yeah. We had a rule. Like printers, you only spend like five minutes trying to fix whatever it is, and then you throw it out and buy -- and like, give them a new one. It's like [chuckles] they're- they're always just like -- printers are nightmare. They always have been. They're -- they still are. They -- I don't know why they still are, but they definitely are, you know?

Bekah:

I don't understand. I can buy a printer and it works like perfectly for 30 days. And then, it, like, hits that mark, and it just dies. It doesn't do any of the things that it did before. I feel like it's making a decision to not work.

Kirk:

If you're willing to indulge in conspiracy theories, there's a perfectly valid explanation why not [laughs] --

Bekah:

I am always here for the conspiracy theories.

Kirk:

But I was gonna say this conversation, and it feels like similar ones we've been having for a while. Just about like -- and we said how vast this -- like, tech is, as a word means ... I don't even know what it means. It -- if -- like, it's just -- there's so much, and it's- it's weird. Because we say things like software developer, and like, those are two words. Yes. I don't know what those mean. And they have very little to do with what my job is. And then, like, words like full stack, or front end, or backend, it's like that's still so incredibly vague as to be almost ultimately useless. Like, it doesn't -- I don't know what you do when you say that, at all. I could guess, and I would probably be wrong.

Dan:

Yeah. We- we actually spent our entire hour today at Virtual Coffee talking about that exact thing. Mostly, cuz I said in my intro that I don't like the word full stack. And -- when I was talking about myself, you know? And like, I don't feel like it's very descriptive for what I do. And then that started a whole- a whole thing [laughs]. But [unintelligible].

Bekah:

So instead of saying full stack, you just say you do things with computers?

Dan:

Yeah. At the --

Bekah:

That's much, much better.

Dan:

At -- yeah, yeah. At coffee, I ended up with, "I do typey, typey." So, that's [all chuckles] --

Kirk:

You know, it's like explain it like I'm five, the subreddit. It's like, "What a computer programming?" Like, "I do typey, typey." And then you just see what's that. Recently, I've been saying -- I've been, like, very specific. It's like, "Oh, I write JavaScript sometimes, and TypeScript sometimes, and Python sometimes, and SQL sometimes. And sometimes I'm clicking buttons in the GUI [??]. And that's- that's what I do right now. That will probably change in two months, or six months, or something."

Bekah:

I was-

Dan:

Yeah.

Bekah:

-at the hospital with one of my kids. They had to get a test. And the hospital intake person asked, she was like, "Well, what do you do?" And in my mind, what- what she really wanted was just like a job title so she could put it down on the form, right? And I was like [chuckles] -- but she said, "What do you do?" And so, I was panicked because I'm like, "How do I explain what I do?" I do things with the computer, and code, and community, and education, and- and I'm like ... went on this long tangent about what I did [laughs]. I was like, "Oh, my title. It's technical community builder." It was like, really, really -- I- I don't think that she was ready for that at five thirty in the morning on a Saturday [laughs].

Dan:

Yeah. It's -- yeah, I can- I can feel that whole thing happening every time somebody asks me and or every time I have to do an intro at Virtual Coffee [laughs]. It's like -- I'm like, "Well, do I do the half hour discussion version, or do I just say I do computer things?" Yeah. Well, Jesse- Jesse was saying, "Yeah, if the -- i-if you talk to somebody in -- that are in tech, then you'd be more- more descriptive. And if it's somebody that doesn't know anything, you say, 'I build websites and apps.'" And that's- that's mostly what I do too. Yeah. So, I --

Bekah:

I don't do any -- I don't do that though [chuckles].

Dan:

Well, right now, I mean, you know, yeah. It's- it's a little -- but you have a job title, right? That you forgot-

Bekah:

Yeah.

Dan:

-about? But, like, at least you have that to fall-

Bekah:

That does make it much difference.

Dan:

-to fallback on --

Bekah:

Well, she didn't ask me my job title. She said, "What do you do?" [Chuckles]

Dan:

[Chuckles] Right.

Bekah:

Which to me is like, "Now I have to tell a story of the thing that I do." I'm not [chuckles] --

Kirk:

Like a who are you? Like, as a-

Bekah:

Right?

Kirk:

-person? And yeah, I will write it in this form. There's a section for it.

Bekah:

Well, it felt like she wanted my bio [laughs].

Dan:

[Laughs] So --

Kirk:

Yeah. I mean --

Dan:

Oh, go ahead, Kirk.

Kirk:

Well, Dan, like you, and then, if I think of, like, how Bekah would describe her role, if I think of how it -- there's -- the overlap -- like, there's overlaps. But I don't -- I make an app for people who make apps and websites, you know? So like, it's a very -- it's very similar-

Bekah:

A Meta app maker? [Chuckles]

Kirk:

-but I don't know. Just ... oh, yeah. It's ... I've been trying to, like, sneak the word Meta into, like, all aspects of my life cuz it just feels cooler if you can, like, "Oh, I did it like a Meta way." It's cool.

Dan:

Sponsored by Meta? [Bekah chuckles]

Kirk:

Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean [exhales], if they're tired of React, and they want something else that's, like, super cool ... I'm just saying, give the whole podcast.

Dan:

Next time we- next time we talk, Kirk's gonna show up with, like, the NASCAR outfit and the hat, you know? And the, like, the jersey and stuff. Except it's all just gonna say Meta all over place [chuckles].

Kirk:

I cannot describe to you how foreign the entire concept of NASCAR is to every aspect of my life [chuckles]. But it looks cool.

Dan:

As long [??] --

Kirk:

But yeah. But -- just to say, I guess, Hacktoberfest, also, I feel like did that in a big way of -- sometimes, especially in online spaces, you feel ... what's that word? Well, it- it feels like everyone around you sort of like doing the same thing. Or you get that feeling like everyone's doing the same thing. And then, you start comparing yourself to everyone else. Cuz you're like, "Ah, everyone knows about, like, React. Why I not know about React?" Like, "Everyone knows about Git." It's like, "Why I not know about Git?" Like, these things. There's certain things that we just talk about more. And you start, like, comparing yourself to other people. "Oh, everyone knows about AWS. Why don't I know about AWS?" And Hacktoberfest was like a real, like, good reminder that there's a lot going on here. You can only know like 1% of 1%. Like, the very thinest slice. And you prob- like, what you have more in common of people is what you don't know than what you know. So when it comes to open source, like, you're going to feel like a beginner in some things and you're going to feel better in other things. And like, that's -- everyone's doing that all at the same time. And you really shouldn't- you really shouldn't, like, compare yourself to others. That they have a whole life of experiences that have led to, like, where they are and what they feel good at. And if you actually ask them, they probably feel like you. They probably, "I also do not know what I'm doing. And I also feel like everybody else online knows more than me. And I also feel like, you know, I'm just ..." How did Julia's daughter describe it? As staring at the screen for a couple minutes and hitting Ctrl+Z 75 times. That is how I feel all the time [laughs]. That is my job. But yeah, Hacktoberfest is a really good reminder of that in a way that doesn't feel like destructive, but like, feels really healthy. You know, like, we're all ... trying to figure it. It's like- it's like, for one month, everyone tries to figure something out and, like, we all accept that we're trying to figure it out. And ... that's great.

Dan:

Yeah, totally. A-and like the -- this is just -- we talk about this every- every time we talk about Hacktoberfest. But like, there's a lot of ... I don't know. There's a lot of, like, social things that go around with contributing to open source ... projects too. And that- that -- like, that is something that causes anxiety for me, you know? Especially- especially when I hadn't really done much contrib- you know, open source contributing before I worked as a developer for a long time, before I ever, you know, did any open source stuff. And that's one of the things that we try to push here too. Like, with our- with our thing is not just like, oh, writing code or whatever. But how to- how to, like, engage in a community — an open source community, whether it's a big one or a small one. And, you know, how to- how to navigate that without feeling -- I mean, I- I suppose you're always gonna feel nervous the first time you do something, but hopefully we can, you know, help you kind of get a -- go along and- and- and do it. And so that's- that's one of our other ... I don't know. One of- one of the other things that we- we try to, like, concentrate on is- is just helping people kind of start that journey, you know? Cuz once- once you get a couple under your belt, it becomes -- i-it, like, it opens your eyes to all the things you can do. And everything else becomes a little more possible if- if you've done it a couple times, you know? Maybe in a controlled environment like at Virtual Coffee?

Bekah:

Well, it's nice too that we have maintainers who are members. Because they might be maintaining a project for fun, for Hacktoberfest, to help people get in. Or they might be maintaining a larger project for work. But I think that when you see other people who you know in those larger projects, let's say, and you have some experience doing the things that we do at Virtual Coffee, then it helps to, like, create that path to being able to take on things that maybe you would've been too scared of before, or, you know, to go outside of Virtual Coffee to do the things. And I think that, you know, decreasing those barriers to entry, providing support and mentorship, and that community excitement around things goes a long way to improving the experience of everybody who's involved in open source contributions.

Kirk:

Yeah, it reminds me not to get to Meta [??]. But ... I've been, like, re-binging -- I've been binging like all the episodes of the podcast. And I was listening the one with Julia. Which is one, as I to- it's- it's the most chaotic episode [chuckles]. It's just like, the first 20 minutes is so off the rails. It's Doubloon, Dan, which is my -- one of my favorite Dans [??], you know? But you all were talking about like teaching and concept of teaching. What feels good about teaching, right? And like, the -- that moment where you helped somebody else, like, truly gain insight, right? Not just like you told them something, they're like, "Yeah, okay." But like, you, like, explain something, or you show them something or you help them, and they like- they like, say like, "I get it." And like, this real moment of, like, pride and joy. And just, like, self-validation. That feels really good, you know? That feels like a ... it almost like -- I almost wanna say that it's like an almost fundamental human experience. You feel it like when you're with your kids or with family or like, you know, like, young people where it's like, "I helped you figure out a thing and I can, like, watch that happen." So I feel like Hacktoberfest also has a lot of those moments where like, you're on either side of it. But it's like, we both did this, and now there's like a real -- something just got, like, better, you know? Like, this person learned something. Like, I helped them. I love that feeling, you know? Like, I would -- I'd do that all day. Or I wanna do that all day. So, that -- I think that's like my fave- I love, like, it -- that -- it's- it's a real -- a lot of like -- Hacktoberfest for me is like really, like, vicarious. Like, I can't always, like, jump into stuff. But if I'm just hanging out in the Slack, it sounds like, "Hey, this person helped this person figure this out." They're like, "Hey, I didn't know Git stuff. Can someone help me with Git?" This is great. Like, I could just -- I'm just -- this is like [laughs] -- this is my television. I don't know. This is like my ... I can't think of, like, a thing that I like more than just like watching people go, "Oh, I figured this thing out." And then, like, the double up like, "Oh, someone else helped me figure this thing out." That feels- that feels like all of it really -- and like everything we do from, you know, the- the podcast, or like the videos, or even having like the- the one big pairing thing, or doing stuff together, or like the website, it gets -- all seemed like, we're all funneling towards making that moment, like, super achievable for people, right? Cuz like, that's the thing where you go like, "Oh, actually I'm not, like, worse than everybody else." "Oh, actually I think I do, like, this- this work and this field that I've chosen to do," you know? "I do feel like I belong in this space." Like, it's those moments to make this happen. And we talked about a little bit in VC today of like, you know, so much- so much for a lot of people of the developer experience, especially when it gets -- it's like, just developing alone. Just, like, figuring it out by yourself. It's just like you, you're online, and it's all by yourself. And there's nothing, like, wrong with that. But it also feels really good when you can do stuff with other people. And I feel like sometimes that's the difference between ... yeah, I wanna keep going at this, or, yeah, I don't. It's not like you couldn't have done it or you're not capable. But just ... things are better sometimes if there's other people to work on. Like, it's just, I'm trying to think of what if ... football — not saying soccer. You can't make me — which is like a one on one sport [chuckles], same 90 minutes, same field, but just one person. And that's kind of how it feels when you're working on a problem by yourself sometimes. Just like, "This is so ... much. I can't finish." But if like 10 other people, then it feels better. The football, that is. Not- not soccer. For anyone else. Football.

Dan:

I- I like that analogy [chuckles]. I do. I'm getting distracted cuz, like, Bekah seems like she really has something to say, or is -- maybe there's an animal loose in her room. I'm not sure [Dan and Bekah chuckle]. But if you're listening to this later, Bekah is just like losing her mind, while Kirk is talking [laughs].

Bekah:

It's just- it's just -- I'm- I'm struggling because I'm really tired and I didn't get a cup of coffee before this. And like, I'm- I'm definitely into this conversation and I'm just having a hard time with -- dealing with the physical symptoms of tiredness. Sorry. I'm sorry. I might go get a cup of coffee [chuckles].

Dan:

[Laughs] Oh, man.

Bekah:

Well, also, this is -- I had a meeting today, and then I live streamed, and this is the second livestream. And I- I am sorry that I -- this is the third- third person -- people interaction that I've done of the day because you got -- they had me at my best in the first meeting. Now I'm ... whatever this two-o'clock-Bekah.

Kirk:

Dan, when she give her the jacket, she needs the coffee.

Bekah:

Thank you.

Dan:

Hmm. Pass [chuckles].

Kirk:

You pass? [Chuckles] Maybe think about it for more than two seconds, Dan.

Dan:

Hmm ... pass.

Bekah:

Tom Cudd has given me permission to go get coffee. So that's what I'm going to do. So, you can talk, and I will mute, and go get my coffee. And then I will be fine.

Dan:

Okay. This is ... that's fine [laughs].

Kirk:

Ooh, Julia. Hollywood. So, Julia just mentioned Hollywood Squares in a chat. And I feel like I've spent the last two years not seeing the parallels between every Zoom meeting and Hollywood Squares. And it's weird that there hasn't been, like, more of an intersection between those two concepts. But we can explore that at another time.

Dan:

[Chuckles] Alright. Well, Bekah is gone. So, Kirk would --

Kirk:

She's left. I'm like ... I guess I'm Bekah now.

Dan:

No, you're- you're- you're-

Kirk:

Again.

Dan:

-Kirk. Should we just talk about TypeScript? TypeScript Tuesdays takeover [laughs]?

Kirk:

[Laughs] Now we're here. We just post TypeScript Tuesdays. I mean, we can talk about TypeScript in the- in the frame of -- reference of Hacktoberfest. Sort of like a manifestation of everything we've been talking about, right? You and I have been sort of learning how to use TypeScript together in a codebase and we've been working on it. Bekah really changed.

Dan:

[Laughs] A wild Jesse sighting.

Kirk:

This remind me ... there was a time -- see, I feel like in the early days of Virtual Coffee, eons ago, I feel like we did not go one VC meeting without Bekah being, like, Ashton Kucher punked by at least one of her kids.

Dan:

Yeah.

Kirk:

And there was a day where you locked your door, you're like, "I've locked the door. They can't come in." And then, they opened the window. And you could just hear the sounds of children spilling in through the windows.

Bekah:

So, my- my bedroom has doors to it. But they don't go anywhere. They open up and there's like a railing there. So you can't get through. And so they climbed up the house. They pushed like a playset, and climbed a story up, opened the door, and came into the bedroom because I locked them out.

Kirk:

It's called manifesting your dreams.

Bekah:

Yesterday I had a meeting. And my 6-year-old came in to tell me during the meeting that my 8-year-old was twerking at her. I'm like [laughs] ... hashtag momlife [chuckles].

Dan:

Oh, god. That is amazing. Is that the new-

Kirk:

That's ... the most [unintelligible].

Dan:

-is that the new my-sister's-staring-at-me? For- for the modern day?

Bekah:

I -- it must be. It must be. Yeah. I hate when people twerk at me too.

Kirk:

With me is fine. But acne is unaccept.

Bekah:

I -- so, I'll take you on a tangent. I might have told this story before, but never on a recording. When I was in college, I went to Prague for spring break with, like, the business group, and we went to this dance club. And this guy was tickling my armpit while I was dancing. And I was like, "Is this some kind of thing that they do in Prague?" And I don't know who was at Virtual Coffee when I told the story. And they're like, "This is- this is definitely not something that- that they do in Prague. That guy was just really weird." Cool [laughs]. Now you all know about it too.

Kirk:

I mean, at the time you were saying [laughs] ... I'm just -- I don't know what I thought you were gonna say, but that- that wasn't it. I particularly marked it wasn't what I thought-

Bekah:

I- I don't even know-

Kirk:

-and you thought.

Bekah:

-how to respond to that. I still don't know. And this is, like ... many years later [chuckles]. How do you respond to someone tickling your armpit on the dance floor? Go ahead and throw that in the chat.

Kirk:

That's an interesting question. Maybe when he was six and his sibling was eight, they twerk at him. And he --

Dan:

That's a good question. Were you- were you twerking at him? It's in response to some of the ... you know?

Bekah:

I was most assuredly not twerking at him [chuckles].

Dan:

[Laughs] I mean, yeah. There's different kind -- I mean, there- there's, like, twerking at somebody where you want them to dance with you, and there's twerking at somebody where you're trying to bother them, right? And so-

Bekah:

I don't-

Dan:

-I feel like there's --

Bekah:

-I don't know how to twerk, okay? [Laughs]

Dan:

[Chuckles] Well, obviously you have somebody in your house that could teach-

Kirk:

Dan, wait.

Dan:

-you. So --

Kirk:

Hold on [??]. Dan, it feels like you're saying that of like -- I mean, like- like the- the sort of like father-kid moment. Well, there's different types of twerks.

Dan:

That's right.

Kirk:

This one will twerk at you, menacing you.

Dan:

Right.

Kirk:

But then there's one people twerk at you, in a positive way.

Dan:

Yeah. Invitingly, right?

Kirk:

You know? And it's [inaudible].

Dan:

That's when you tickle their armpits [laughs].

Bekah:

[Laughs] You should just never tickle someone's armpits. I'm a firm believer in not tickling armpits. [Dan laughs] So, hopefully nobody-

Dan:

Yeah.

Bekah:

-is tickling your proverbial armpits on your Hacktoberfest repository [laughs].

Dan:

There she is. The master of segues [laughs].

Kirk:

But also, like, your real -- I -- like, not -- it doesn't, you know, metaphorically or not, probably- probably, no? I don't think you need to, like, put it in a code of conduct. But ... [Bekah laughs] maybe, after that guy went to that- that dance place in Prague, they put it on their code of con- you know, on the door, like, you know, no -- like, 'Must wear shirt, no armpit tickling', you know, 'Don't torture people'. Proverbial Armpit is an excellent band name, Tom. You are right. I think, when we decided to do this- this one live, we thoroughly did not anticipate the fact that we would have to talk while reading chat. And as everyone here knows, that is very difficult for us.

Dan:

I- I mean ... yeah. I- I, you know, we -- there's been a couple comments in the- in the chat about ... yes. You shouldn't -- just- just in general life rule, don't tickle strangers armpits, you know? You want them -- any armpit tickling to be ... consensual [Dan and Bekah laugh]. All right, hold on. There's a delivery person walking in right now [laughs].

Kirk:

That's perfectly --

Dan:

That was really well-timed.

Kirk:

Okay, cool.

Dan:

Well, I got my package delivered. Well, hopefully he walked out with the-

Kirk:

He --

Dan:

-knowledge -- you know, the- the wisdom to not tickle people's armpits that haven't given- given prior consent.

Bekah:

Can -- we need --

Kirk:

Same [unintelligible].

Bekah:

Listen. We need a sticker in the Virtual Coffee store that- [laughs] that talks about that.

Dan:

[Chuckles] If somebody makes that sticker, I will put it on the store.

Bekah:

Yes.

Dan:

I- I promise.

Bekah:

And we also need a structured YOLO sticker. We're about to run a contest or something to get those in there.

Dan:

Ooh.

Bekah:

Ooh, make an issue for armpit tickling [laughs]. I really enjoy derailing the conversation.

Dan:

[Chuckles] Yes. No. Kirk- Kirk said, yes. Imagining the delivery person walking in, seeing my jacket, and talking about armpit tickling ... in- in a stream. Yeah, no. I- I imagine that- that gentleman will be sharing that story [laughs] when he gets back f-from the shift.

Kirk:

I'm gonna say -- so, I mean, you're probably, like, you don't even place on, like, the weirdest events that have happened while he's delivering things, right? Like, so-

Dan:

Yeah. That's true.

Kirk:

-you know? I always, like, to remind myself of that sometimes whenever I'm like, "Oh, was that weird or awkward?" I'm like, "It doesn't even rank on the things happening in the world." Bekah got armpit-tickled in real-life. In Prague. You know?

Bekah:

Real armpit-

Dan:

What?

Bekah:

-tickled.

Kirk:

Bekah, again, the segue thing. I don't know how to- I don't know how to say --

Bekah:

I used my segue. And then, nobody followed it up.

Kirk:

It- it didn't take, you know, like some -- when you have like a lighter-

Bekah:

Yeah.

Kirk:

-and you do the first flick, and like, it just does [inaudible] like the matches --

Bekah:

It's hard to have two armpit tickling segues though.

Kirk:

If anyone can do it, it's you. I believe in you.

Dan:

I have faith.

Bekah:

Speaking of armpit tickling-

Dan:

There it is [laughs].

Bekah:

-what have been your uncomfortable moments ... in your Hacktoberfest history?

Kirk:

Oh.

Dan:

Oh, you know, actually that's a -- that's ... hey, Bekah. That's a really good question and a wonderful segue. Thank you. This is actually something I was gonna talk about before you left to get a cup of coffee in the middle of our stream [laughs]. It was- it was --

Bekah:

You said I could.

Dan:

Yeah, okay. Well, that's fair. Is ... you said uncomfortable moments, eh? And there- there are some, like -- so, we were talking about the positive sides of, you know, becoming a maintainer, and- and- and open sourcing your project, and- and doing that things. And it's from a- from a maintainer standpoint. There are, like, you know, it- it- it can be hard too, you know? It- it can be, like, difficult to navigate sometimes. And again, here's, like, the social issues are more of problem than, like, the technology or code parts of it. You know what I mean? Is how to ... navigate some of that stuff. And- and like, as a person who is not always the best ... I don't know. Like, I alway- [laughs] I- I- I don't know. My reactions to things are, you know- you know, usually -- sometimes, like, my reactions come out, like, you know, you have a gut reaction to something, and then you, like, realize that, "Oh, okay. Let's, you know, think about this for a little bit." And, you know, it took me a while to figure out that I needed to pause before I, [chuckles] you know, before I let any gut reactions, like, come through or whatever, and think through some things, and, you know, help- help communicate with that. But it's like, I- I- I think, the biggest part of that is- is communication. Alright. I'm sorry. I glanced at the chat in [unintelligible] just like [laughs] ... Bekah, you are the one that was trying to segue us back over here. And the -- I feel like, you know, you're not- you're not helping us for --

Bekah:

I didn't say anything. It was Kirk.

Dan:

Oh, yes. You were giggling, and chatting [chuckles], and ... you know? It's just sometimes hard to- hard to concentrate. But, you know. I don't really have any idea what I was saying.

Bekah:

Responding to people in communication and taking-

Dan:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bekah:

-a step back before going with your gut feeling. See?

Dan:

Yes. Exactly. So, anyway, communication skills important. But it is a very good place to do practice those and get better. I've be- I have become a- a much better -- I mean, certainly a much better open source maintainer since the first time I did it, was when we started this thing three years ago. And, you know, over the last three years have- have, like, learned a ton, you know? And I'm -- I feel much better about doing it now than I ... looking back, than I did, you know? I felt confident about it going into it in the first place. But that's where you- you just like, i-it's just one of those things where the only way to really get good at it is to do it. And that's why -- that- that's just why I'm- I'm always, like, behind Kirk. Like, what Kirk was saying was, you know, it's a great time to -- like, this is a great time to do it because we have, like, all of our resources are pointing towards that. I mean, not our, like, resources on our site. But all of Virtual Coffee right now is doing Hacktoberfest stuff, you know what I mean? And we have a ton of support for maintainers and stuff as well. And those- those -- that's -- that support exists all- all year round, you know? If you're thinking about open sourcing a project, doesn't have to be right now, obviously. But it's a good time to do it and you'll have -- probably have -- instantly have people that wanna contribute if you have a project that's open source during Hacktoberfest. So, I dunno. That's- that's my little bit is ... you know-

Bekah:

My goal this year is to maintain-

Dan:

-jump in and do it.

Bekah:

-the momentum beyond Hacktoberfest, right? Like, to continue to do open source projects and to work with other people at Virtual Coffee or, you know, outside of our community, and keep moving these things that I'm really excited about forward. And I think that, you know, hopefully we can build some of that accountabi- some of that accountability into Virtual Coffee for other maintainers who want that support and contributors beyond Virtual Coffees VCHI — Virtual Coffee Hacktoberfest Initiative, and- and just keep going with it. Because I think it is a really great way to learn more about how to contribute, how to be a maintainer, to work on that communication because communication can be really hard. And so, you know, this is- this is the start of it. And we're gonna keep going.

Kirk:

We call VCHI [v-chai], VCHI, also because it's- it's a reference to the word chai as like another coffee time?

Bekah:

Yep.

Dan:

No, I don't --

Bekah:

Mm-hmm.

Dan:

Yep [laughs].

Bekah:

That's exactly what we were thinking.

Kirk:

Great. That's a great idea. And we were super smart for thinking about that. But also, yes, so -- to everything that- that you said, like, the sustain ... I don't know. I- I think, I spend a lot of time thinking about, like, sustainability in many ways. I feel like a lot of the things in my life, like, I can get this, like, big burst of energy and do a flurry of activity, and then -- but then, all that energy, like, goes away and then I'm like, "Oh, no. What do I do now? That thing I used to do, all this stuff is gone." And you know, like, that sort of -- a lot of the stuff we've been talking about in this community just in general, and reading, like, about, like, having to not rely on, like, inspiration slash motivation, and how to, like, turn things into processes and routines that either, like, provide you what you need to make things sustained or like, just lowering the barrier on yourself for what you have to put into things to get, like, the outcomes that you want. So, yeah. I feel like that's a really good ... I dunno. That feels like a really good goal and I should probably do the same thing. Yeah. And you know, if we also -- if Segway wants to sponsor, I'm not -- today, do they still make those?

Bekah:

Yeah. I saw people, like, riding around them in a Segway pack in Pittsburgh.

Dan:

[Whisper] Segway pack? [Chuckles]

Kirk:

[Chuckles] I don't know. That's the collective noun.

Bekah:

The flock? [Chuckles]

Kirk:

A herd.

Bekah:

A herd. A herd of Segway.

Kirk:

A herd of Segways. It's like when Dan was in that- that group of his when he was a kid. The ... Little [??] Kids of Bad Town. I dunno. That sounds [??] fun.

Dan:

Yeah, that's it. What did you say it was? [Dan and Bekah laugh]

Kirk:

I've been -- every time I mention -- I think this is like the fifth time. And every time [laughs] I try and say a new name, it's like Benedict ... Cumberbatch. Like, you can't say his real name. You have to say, like, Bumblebee Pumpkin Patch. Like, you -- there's no -- why would you -- you know, I mean, you know, like, you're not -- the whole point ... anyway. It's fine. Dan was in a scooter gang.

Dan:

It was not a scooter gang. At that point, I'm going to -- I'm not gonna yes on that. I've -- I don't ride scooters. I am not interested in that. It's a mountain bike gang called the Sugar Hill Pumpkin Patch Crew [Dan and Bekah laugh]. I dunno. I try to remember what you said. But we were awesome. So, you know ... what are you gonna do? Yes. Rebecca says mountain bike for the win. Yes. Agree.

Kirk:

No. Maybe Bekah was right about getting more coffee. I saw MTV, and I was like, "Major Trifecta Baseball?" I- I could not put that together. Okay. Now the chat's just talking about bikes, and Jesse says the bikes-

Dan:

Jesse, how dare you? [Dan and Bekah laugh]

Kirk:

-are just low --

Dan:

Jesse says, "Bikes are just low tech scooters, right?" And I to that say, "How dare you, sir." [Chuckles]

Kirk:

Bikes are just overly engineered unicycles, you know? Like --

Bekah:

Yeah. It's interesting how bikes are so much like open source contributions, right?

Dan:

No.

Kirk:

[Chuckles] That's --

Dan:

No.

Bekah:

Like, you gotta learn how to get on the bike, learn how to ride the bike, and how to maintain momentum. And that's what we're trying to do here [chuckles]. C'mon! It wasn't too bad [laughs].

Dan:

I wish I had- I wish I had my soundboard here. Yes, I would've air horned that one. That one was awesome [chuckles].

Kirk:

I mean, [inaudible] just for Bekah segues, we would like [inaudible] a very specific sound.

Dan:

Just like a crowd cheering-

Kirk:

I wonder --

Dan:

-sound or something, you know?

Bekah:

I'm here for it.

Kirk:

Is it possible to do, like, an entire presentation of, like, only segue? I guess you can't be only segue, right? Because, like, a segue is like a conjunction. So, like, you- you need-

Dan:

Yeah.

Kirk:

-things to combine --

Dan:

Right.

Bekah:

Well, I think I beg you --

Dan:

You could write an awesome segue between each slide or something if you're doing a talk, if that's what we're talking about, you know?

Bekah:

I think you -- I- I would argue that you only need to start with one ... thing. And then, the entire rest of the presentation could be rolling segues.

Kirk:

Right. Because a segue can segue from one segue to another segue.

Dan:

S-s-speaking of rolling segues [laughs] --

Kirk:

Functional programming.

Dan:

Functional programming. Yeah. I -- segues make me think of the "White & Nerdy" — Weird Al — music video, which is amazing if you ... listen.

Bekah:

My 8-year-old listens to that, like, every single day. Julia- Julia is going to --

Kirk:

That's where you run to tour.

Bekah:

Great. Julia's got some really good extensions here. "It's easy to buy a bike. But you need someone to help you learn how to maintain it." Absolutely right. It's easier to keep up the routine maintenance and get the most out of your bike investment if you have other cyclists around to mentor you and ride with you. This is great. There's an entire blog post right here in the chat. Somebody just needs to put it together.

Kirk:

And then you can tie in that phrase to tech people say sometimes. Bike shedding. And it all --

Bekah:

Is that really a thing?

Dan:

We're bike shedding- we're bike shedding the segue.

Kirk:

Yeah.

Dan:

Yeah.

Bekah:

I don't know what that mean.

Dan:

Just like dog fooding. And --

Bekah:

Ooh.

Kirk:

Well, see, I specifically didn't say that one.

Dan:

I wouldn't say that one. Shotgun food. Food- food gunning.

Bekah:

Cat treating?

Dan:

Cat treating. And ... [chuckles] no.

Kirk:

No, no. Like, bike shedding is real. It's a real phrase that people actually say. It is far more tolerable than- than [inaudible].

Dan:

I'm very curious to know why it's a bike shed and not, like, some other kind of shed. So, bike shedding, for those of you who don't know, is, in computer — when- when you're talking about it with development — it's, like, spending all of your time and resources on this thing that's sitting on the side instead of your house, right? Like, so, like in the metaphor, your house is like the actual app or whatever you're working on. And the bike shed is just this, like, little thing on the side. And you're, you know, you're making your bike shed really fancy, but not working on your house. Like, that's the- that's the -- I don't use the term, but that's what the term means [chuckles].

Kirk:

Yeah. [Inaudible]-

Dan:

But, like, why bike shed and not, you know --

Kirk:

-[inaudible] doing it.

Dan:

But like, is a bike shed a thing? Do people have? I suppose they probably do somewhere.

Kirk:

I'm guessing [unintelligible] wash.

Dan:

I dunno. But like, yeah. Well ... I'm just saying, of all the things to choose for that metaphor, why a bike shed, is my ... question.

Bekah:

Because maybe they're up for-

Dan:

Speaking of bike sheds [laughs] --

Bekah:

-a bike ... gang [chuckles].

Dan:

Oh, yeah. Yak shaving. I don't remember what that one means. I have to [inaudible] that one.

Bekah:

Don't ... use that out loud. That's -- this is a-

Dan:

Oh, is that-

Bekah:

-family podcast [chuckles].

Dan:

-is that a -- am I- am I getting code of conducted? [Chuckles] Alright. Alright.

Kirk:

I think, my next Hacktoberfest project will be a bot that just takes like random amount [??] [chuckles], and then one of these things, and just puts it together, and then just makes up some sort of nonsense definitions. It's like these are all the tech terms. I put them all in this bot, you know?

Dan:

I love that.

Kirk:

What was that one you said earlier? Cat feeding?

Dan:

Cat treating. I think she said.

Bekah:

Yes, that's what I said.

Kirk:

Yeah. Now we -- that'll be my next project. I feel like we can -- slowly but surely, I feel like we have managed to talk a little bit about OSS and open source. And I feel like, for those of you listening and watching, if you take anything away from this, it is that ... we really enjoy this time. And in many ways, Hacktoberfest is the thing that, like, really solidified a lot of parts of Virtual Coffee. It was how the maintainers sort of like became the maintainers. It was how we, like, normalized a ton of things. It was how we, like, set the direction for a ton of things. It was how I think a lot of us made the decision to -- this wasn't -- like, this was like, oh, this is -- VC is like a thing that we wanna keep doing. And like, it- it exists as, like, a space that can do a lot of good, you know? In addition to, like, the personal good was doing for us, but just like- just like a really good thing to be, like, kept and maintained. So we- we care about it a lot. And we're really excited that it's still happening. We're still sort of feeling the way we felt about it at the beginning. Because at the end of the day, like, Hacktoberfest really isn't about the, like, individual projects we're working on. It's about the collaboration with other people. And the only reason I managed to get through any of that is because I explicitly did not read whatever Julia just posted about ostriches. I saw that word, and I turned away. And you should be proud of me.

Dan:

I'm proud of you. It's impressive.

Bekah:

You did an excellent job, Kirk. You did a much better job than Dan and I normally do on the podcast wrapping things up. So, I- I think-

Dan:

Yeah.

Bekah:

-it's probably a good time to wrap up and think about what Kirk said.

Dan:

I always think about what Kirk said. I spend the most of my time [inaudible]-

Kirk:

I never think about [inaudible].

Dan:

-about what Kirk says. Yes, I know. I mean, I just also like to add, I mean, thank you to everybody that is here today, and thank you to everybody who's been contributing to Ha-hacktoberfest, and listen to our podcast, and hanging out in Virtual Coffee. Like Kirk said, this is like -- I mean, this is my favorite time of the year for- for Virtual Coffee stuff. The Hacktoberfest stuff is really exciting for me. I love open source stuff in general. I'm gonna say stuff a few more times in this sentence, and then I'll wrap it up. But [chuckles] ... I don't know. It's- it's just a good time and, yeah, has- has a special place in my heart too. Because of the reasons Kirk said, sort of the genesis of a lot of the things that are actually happening in Virtual Coffee now. And it's the-

Bekah:

Including the podcast?

Dan:

-a good -- including the podcast and the website itself didn't exist. We -- I made it so that we could have that issue to have people add themselves as members. And so, like, a lot of stuff- a lot of stuff came out from- from- from Hacktoberfest v1. VCHI v1. So --

Bekah:

We are grateful for everyone here and for this Hacktoberfest season.

Dan:

Alright. Well, then, I think with that, we'll wrap up. Thank you again everybody for coming. Follow us on, you know, the -- all the things. We're VirtualCoffeeIO, you know, most places. So if you haven't yet for us -- you know, follow, subscribe, whatever you do in whatever app that exist in the world. And here I am- I am at the end of my sentence. And I don't know how to wrap up. So somebody finish this thing and then I'll hit end.

Bekah:

Thanks for being here, friends.

Kirk:

Bye.

Dan:

Bye, everybody. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week!

The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.