Taiwo Yusuf - The Importance of Having a Learning Mindset

Show Notes:

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Transcript:

Bekah: 00:06

Hello, and welcome to season eight, episode seven of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. We're grateful to be sponsored by Level Up Financial Planning, who understands the importance of finding balance between having an awesome life today and being confident and excited about your future possibilities. If you want to take your financial confidence to the next level, check out level Up financial planning.com and you can get that link in our show notes. I'm Bekah, and this is a podcast that features members of the Virtual Coffee community. Virtual Coffee is an intimate group of developers at all stages of their journey, and they're here on this podcast sharing their stories and what they've learned, and we are here to share it with you. Here with me today, as always, is my co-host Dan?

Dan: 00:52

What up? How's it?

Bekah: 00:53

Yo, it is going fantastic. How is it going with you?

Dan: 00:57

It's going great. Um, today we have a super awesome episode for Ywe. Talked with Taiwo. Uh, Taiwo is a, a Bekah engineer from Nigeria and he's also a longtime member and room leader and all around very, very great person. Uh, he has, he has this amazing energy, uh, to him and it's always a good time hanging out with him. And, uh, we had a great conversation.

Bekah: 01:21

Yeah, it was really good. Uh, Taiwo was a really great storyteller, so just to be able to sit there and listen to what he was talking about, all of the, all of his journey from, I think what electrical engineering, right. Um, To, to coding was really interesting and I just was super impressed by, um, his ability to stay motivated, to surround himself by people who allow him to continue to grow in his journey and to have that mindset of like, yes, I'm always going to be improving. It was just, uh, it was really refreshing, I felt.

Dan: 01:56

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and learned a lot of things about ta. I mean, we, I've sort of casually known him for a while, but, um, it was nice to hear a lot more of his story. I also, I had no idea he had a twin brother. I, maybe other people knew that already, but I did not. Uh, and I.

Bekah: 02:11

As well, so shout out to Leo.

Dan: 02:13

All right. Well, nice. Well, I've either never met him at Virtual Coffee or I just assumed it was Ty. Who knows? Maybe they're doing a switcheroo, uh, you know, uh, what was that movie where the twins Wasn't there a movie with Lindsay Lehan where she had. Yeah. Uh, anyway, um, no, it was, it was a great time talking to him. Um, it was cool learning a bunch about his story and, uh, I don't know. He is a lot of, a lot of good stuff to, to share and also just to, like I said before, a, a great energy. I, I feel like you come outta this, anytime you hang out with Ty, you come out feeling, um, better just in general.

Bekah: 02:49

Yeah. Also, I just wanna mention that Taiwo is looking for his next role. He's gonna be transitioning outta this one soon, and he gives his pitch at the end of the episode. So one, if you are interested in learning how to pitch when you're put on the spot, uh, definitely check that out. If you're looking for a backend engineer or someone who would make an amazing teammate, also listen to that last bit of the podcast as well. And we start every episode of the podcast, like we start every Virtual Coffee, we introduce ourselves with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random check-in question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Our random question of the day is, if you wanted to do something relaxing, what would it be? My name is Bekah. I'm developer experience lead at opensource. And if I could do something relaxing, uh, in my current day and age, it would probably be to go for a hike. When I was younger, it would be just to read a book all day. But I find with four children it is very hard for me to sit and do anything. It is often not very relaxing, so I like to. Um, be moving always. Unless I'm sleeping. That's it.

Dan: 04:19

Yeah. Uh, yeah. Hey, I'm Dan. I am a web developer from the North Coast, and, um,

Bekah: 04:27

It's not the normal

Dan: 04:29

it is, it is Cleveland. Yeah. what?

Bekah: 04:32

of Lake Erie, is that what they call it up there,

Dan: 04:34

It's the north coast of America.

Bekah: 04:36

coast of Lake Erie.

Dan: 04:38

N no, it's the north coast of America.

Bekah: 04:41

It's not really though the coast that ocean touches,

Dan: 04:45

Well, or a big lake?

Bekah: 04:48

Ohio does not

Dan: 04:50

Or a big lake. Listen, it's a thing. Okay. Just, just, okay, Yeah. Well, Pittsburgh is garbage, so you know, everybody knows that. Alright. All right. Just kidding. Pittsburgh is awesome. Sorry, not sorry. Uh, anyway, um, too relax. Yeah. Um, I mean, I like reading a book. Uh, Hiking is also a good one. I'd say riding my bike is, is also, um, a, a good thing. And um, actually the first thing that popped into my mind was, uh, canoeing and it's probably on my mind 'cause I'm going canoeing, uh, in, in about a month or so. So I'm looking forward to that. But there's something special about just like being, I. On a, on a, on a, on a canoe and, you know, paddling in a, in a calm, calm

Bekah: 05:34

Kayaking. Yeah, I would add that to my list too.

Dan: 05:36

yeah, I've never enjoyed kayaking, but, uh, I respect it. I just have never personally enjoyed it. Um, I, I don't like, I'm just always uncomfortable in a kayak. I've never found one that I've liked, but that's personal preferences. So, you know, kayak are in garbage like Pittsburgh, all.

Taiwo: 05:58

So, hello, my name is Wo. I am a backend engineer at Grace Health and uh, I am from Nigeria. When you talk about what do I, what would I do if I wanted to relax? I think I'm moving out of my very energetic phase of life into a much more, I just want to be left alone and I don't even have kids. So I wonder how that will be in the future. So right now, if I wanted to rest, I will either do two things. Either. Either hang with friends, like, you know, chill, do nothing. Just chill or just be, remind myself at home, maybe sleep. I think, uh, yeah, that's like the peak of relaxation for me at this point of my life. So thank you very much, Dan and Bekah for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Bekah: 06:48

Thanks for being here. We're happy to have you. Uh, and we start every episode of the podcast with origin stories. So, uh, tell us about your journey into tech and what it's been like getting to this point of your career.

Taiwo: 07:03

Awesome, awesome. So, uh, I will, growing up, my dad is a teacher, so you know, teachers and books. So I think growing up while I was around, Seven years old. I started reading biology textbooks, you know, history textbooks, pole science, Europe since Napoleon. So you know, the exposure overload from the start. And my ha, my dad has this friend of his that was an Nic, electrical engineer. I'm like, whoa, he's so cool. I think one of the peak of that coolness was once it came to our party and then our speak had problems, I. Like magic. That time was like magic, but now I understand. But there was like magic and he fixed it. Then everyone had something to dance to. Now how that kind of memory sticks to your, you know, aired as a kid. So that was what like, oh yeah, that's cool. I wanna be an engineer. I. So I continued, you know, went, uh, into university, studied electronics, electrical engineer, surprise, surprise, engineering. And uh, uh, at a particular point we had a strike in Nigeria, Nigerian University. We're known for that. You know, just take like two months, say, okay, we're striking, you didn't pay our salaries or something. And that was when I just, uh, you know, helped a friend do his thesis project. Then low and build. I started writing backhand code rather than just building hardware, you know, making planes, drones, making you know, adrenals and stuff like that. So that was where it all started, like, okay, seems like this code thing. This is all very, very interesting and it's worthwhile. So I would say in the shortest of phones, that's like the origin story. And every other thing, you know, just ensued. Got your first internship, got my first, uh, job and yeah, we, we we're pushing it until today.

Bekah: 09:05

Okay, so you grad, did you graduate with an electrical engineering degree?

Taiwo: 09:09

Yes. Top of my class too. So I was the best in my class and, uh, very, very good. Great point. Great, great point. In fact, uh, but regardless, I haven't even gone in Nigeria, we have this compulsory. Service that you're supposed to do after school. I haven't even done that because while in school in my finals, I, you know, properly transitioned into software engineering, had a full-time job at that time. And, uh, yeah, once I was done with school, there was no looking back and I still wish I could do some electrical engineering stuff. I can, but yeah, you know, there's always a lot of code to write. So that's, that's the stage right now.

Bekah: 09:52

so you were working full-time while you were still in school.

Taiwo: 09:57

Yes, very much. And, uh, I think, uh, the fact that I already did the bulk of the work, like, um, I already had the highest grade point. The second person to me in class was very far away, and I knew that, okay, even if I relax now, uh, yeah, it's a home run. And it was a home run because I did relax a lot in the finals. Even though it was not as relaxed as I would call it. So yeah, eventually, uh, everything worked out very well and I'm very glad I did that because if I had focus on the electrical engineering degree, yeah, I would be like most of my friends right now, you know, uh, you know, running around and stuff. But yeah, I just trade at the time, went for full-time software engineering and uh, yeah, I'm happy. That definitely was a choice I took.

Bekah: 10:49

That's amazing.

Taiwo: 10:50

Oh, thank you. That is amazing. The sounds, I believe it's not as crazy. it's interesting and it is fascinating because coming from an ad web background, uh, like I said, I was top of my class. I, I always had something I. Do every semester. So for example, I built, while I was still in my first year or second year, I built like, uh, you know, devices that you would use to take biometric attendance in class just for the fun of it. And I will build drones and I will build, you know, A lot of weird stuff. Now the problem with that is, uh, with hardware engineering you have to, you know, you have to plan it, you have to buy it, you have to make it, you have to ship it, and then it has to come back in three months, two months sometimes. And though you have to put in a lot of work into the planning. But software, uh, I can think about it. Do it. And that was a selling point for me. Like, think about it, there is a problem, fix it, do it. And there is this instant gratification like, oh my God, it works. Yeah, that works. I got hooked like an addict and I'm still hooked. So it's very hard to go back to within three months to verify that it works. So I just do it, get it.

Dan: 12:12

awesome. Yeah. That, uh, idea of the instant gratification, those, the short feedback loops, uh, is a common one with people on the podcast. Uh, especially people who have, you know, changed careers. Um, I think a lot of people, myself, very much included, um, are drawn to that, you know, the, the instant gratification of being able to, to hit hit save, and. See if it worked right away, you know, and get a little bit of, uh, happy feelings, you know, when you, when you could see something working or, uh, or even not, you know, know that, know that it's not working right away. Right. Um, the electrical engineering, yet you mentioned having all these plans before you even start working, which I'm sure is required. You can't just kind of dive in. Um, but. I mean, I'm sure it's satisfying in its own right, but it's, you know, yeah. It's, it's a whole different thing. Right. Do you, so do you still do some hobby, hobby, electrical engineering, uh, these days? Or is it kind of all behind you?

Taiwo: 13:07

Uh, I'll be Yes. Yes. Because you know, if, if it's a career you went to school for five years, it's very hard for you to read yourself of it off of it. And also, you know, electrical engineering comes with. Embedded systems, uh, you know, ware development and stuff. And then you get sometimes because you have uh, this in-depth understanding of how computer works, how C P U works, sometimes it's not the best. 'cause you start thinking for the C P U, like, oh, what if I optimize? So that is a loop that I have to get myself out of. Like, stop thinking for that is hardware. This is software. You can write the most inefficient code sometimes. And it'll still work, so then you can come out and make it better. But really stop. Doing the work for the C P U. So, uh, so far I would say yes. I still have a couple of kids and I do things that I want, not things that might, you know, I'm expected to do. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's the best place you want to be. And I hope one day with regards to software, I'm gonna be able to do things that I want to, like, yeah, I wanna do this, maybe be a SaaS owner or something. But yeah, right now I'm still grinding for the boss and I hope that, I,

Bekah: 14:26

I wanna backtrack just a little bit. So how did you find that first job, especially since you didn't have a degree?

Taiwo: 14:34

um, very, very great question right there. So, my first job require a little clarification. I got my first job, job, uh, as an hardware engineer while in school too. It was more like a part-time job, but it was a job regardless. I was paid to do stuff, was I, I don't remember anymore. This was a long time ago, but no, transitioning into software meant I would lose all of my internships with regards to hardware. And I had a couple of them. I had a lot of, uh, international collaborations. I had a lot of, uh, open source designs. You know, I'm out there. I was out there. Then, uh, lo and behold, I had to let all of that go. So there was this internship that just came up. Like I said, I helped a friend fix a bug. That's all I did. And then I was like, oh, this is cool. Lemme continue. And then I, uh, moved on to applying for that internship and I got in and I spent four months there know, just four months. And after that point, the next job I got was like a referral from my brother. My, I have a twin brother. He's also an a software engineer. He is, he also studied electrical electronics and he also transitioned into software. So he applied for a job and then he showcased one of the projects that he had in his portfolio, and the interview was like, wow. Who built the backend? Alex, my twin brother. You have a twin brother? Yes. Is he open for jobs? Yes. And then I got into back company and I got paid more than him. So it's, it was like, oh yeah, like he got, I got paid almost. Paid, even though I didn't even interview, I could say, well, really you built that? Oh, you built the back. So that was how I got my first job. I would say referrals. And then since then, I think referrals have been very huge in my getting of job currently. I'm also looking to transition away from into something else, and I think one of my key. Uh, things I'm, I'm, I'm really, really riding on. It's just like, ask for referrals. Like, don't worry, I very good and you've, we've worked together, right? And you know that, so can you refer me to your boss? And a couple of them went through. Some of them did not go through, but it's always something worthwhile to, to back on. So yeah, that's, that's how, that's the story. Crazy story.

Bekah: 17:11

Is a fantastic story. I love it so much,

Taiwo: 17:15

My brother. It wasn't fantastic.

Bekah: 17:20

or something, and we'll get.

Taiwo: 17:23

Yeah, definitely. And it was very funny because I was, I was right beside him when he was telling the man that, oh, it's my brother. Like I was like this, oh yeah, that actually, actually, I didn't know it was gonna say, send me an email. And I, the second day I had an interview, I think the third day I started work and I was collecting almost double of what my brother got. Sorry, but it was very cool.

Dan: 17:48

Sorry, not sorry.

Taiwo: 17:49

Sorry. That's like for people. Sorry. Uh, awesome. Awesome. So that's the way to tell everyone that, okay, whenever you leaving somewhere, don't mess up the place. Just leave Even if it's the worst of places, even if it's not the. You know, I don't wanna say more than that, that they are good places and they're places, even if it's one of those good places, just, just go keep it good because you never know. You, you might have to backtrack to one of those that you worked with, and, uh, yeah, they will remember you based on what you probably did last, not what you've already done in the front. It's always good to leave on a good note.

Bekah: 18:37

100%. That's so important. I think that, uh, That's a hard thing to realize, right? Like, especially if you have a good track record. Um, I heard somebody say in sales like, you're only as good as your last month. And I've seen that before where people have been stellar salespeople and then they get fired for having like a bad month or a bad quarter or something. It's like, oh wow. Like you have to try to remind. It's not, I don't think that bad, uh, in tech, but right now things are, um, definitely a little bit tense on the side of. Things in hiring. Um, uh, circling back to transitioning again, how did you learn to do backend development?

Taiwo: 19:20

Um, so, uh, I think, uh, backend development was easy for me. Coming from writing code for microcontrollers and I was like, oh, really? This is what you people do. Of course. You know, that's like the, the start. That was like the introduction and the bulk of my work was like learning processes about projects. So within two months I had three projects out. And, uh, like fast, you know, the, the feedback loop is so short I can do this. I think I bombed out as a point and I came back again like, no, there is no point now at this point. So the way I really, really learned was just doing projects, and I have not, I did not come across Virtual Coffee data. If I did, I think I might have it better than now, because, you know, there was, at that point, I had no real. Real intri feedback. If you get my point, like I know I can get things done. You know, there's this peak that you get to when you are learning stuff and you're okay. I can get anything done, but I do not know what to do. Or whether I'm doing it right. And at that we hold that doing it right. And what you do is probably how we get paid for a software engineer. So, uh, that was how I learned. Just keep doing projects, you know, just come up with, I built an a website for myself and the website was basically to make me write more code. So basically I built something that, okay. Say Bekah wants to write more code, like, yeah, I want to commit five times a week now. So you're gonna come and you're gonna put like, okay, $20. If I fail to commit five times a week. The system just donates your $20 to charity, and that way you have to fight. Not to let the money get terminated. And I've been it for myself. I use it for a while and then, uh, trust me, I stopped using it myself too. So yeah, that's one of those things that I built. Uh, and they were very good during the interview processes because, you know, it's funny, people can what really? You built that? So yes, I can send you the link in case you have like a kid that's not very, you know, you want to make them do better. So, yeah, that's how I learned. And since then that's, that's, that's how I have learned a lot of things, you know, just build it. Although now that I'm getting older, I think I'm able to grab docs and, you know, just check it out, know what I want, and figure it out without building it. But initially was a build first, ask questions later, and that worked out pretty well at that point of my life.

Bekah: 22:07

I like that a lot, and I think that, you know, one of the things that I'm super impressed about you is your motivation to continue to grow like you. It doesn't seem like you ever say stay stagnant. You're constantly learning something new or trying something out or asking questions about things, and I think that's super important to wherever you are in your, uh, tech journey to be able to continue to make progress on things. Because, I mean, honestly, tech is a never ending journey. It, it cannot. Stop because we have to continually move and make progress. And there's all this innovation that's happening and staying up with the innovation is incredibly important I think. Um, I just wanna toss that back over to you and see like what are your thoughts on making progress and staying motivated and keeping up with all of the stuff that's happening.

Taiwo: 22:57

Yeah. So with regards to that, I think, uh, it's one of my, say frequent posts on LinkedIn. 'cause I think I have this, uh, Uh, audience of very young developers. Many of them are from my school, so they know me and they know, they just follow on LinkedIn. So I just try to put some things out. I think, uh, foremost, you are only as good or you can only get as good as you know you can be. So it's very important to, uh, know people that are very, very good. Because they will set those standards for you now starting very local, like you know, local job, local company. You know, simple. Just do this, get it done. At the point you feel like, okay, is this all that there is to software engineering? And then bam, you meet one new awesome dev and they introduce you to this new awesome field. Like what? I can do this. And at that point, I think everything just shut down. And then, You just know, you just rerate it. Like, okay, that's where I'm going now. And you keep doing that. And right now, if there is anything I'm very, very grateful for right now is VC Virtual Coffee and uh, grace Health, virtual Coffee, grace Health, virtual Coffee. Why? Because. Uh, everyone is there. It's not, it's not the company. It's a community, and there are very awesome people there, and you will, I, I've had sessions with a lot of people, David, Albert, a, a lot of people, and then just by talking to them, you know, that, oh my God, there's so much to learn. And it goes, you know, just even reading the questions that people post, you get to know, okay, there is something like this. I want to check that out. And the more you check those things out, the more you know, okay, I have to know this. And then with regards to Grace, I had this awesome, uh, manager, Uber awesome guy. Like awesome, awesome. And then just by meeting him, you know, oh my God, there is levels to this thing. It's not just, oh, I'm a software engineer. No, no, you have to get better. You have to get as good as this awesome piece. So, So far I don't see myself as good yet. Because I have seen so, so many Also, I mean, Dan is here, Bekah is there, Dan's transcript. Everyone knows this. So I, I know, I know. There's so much to learn. And at that point, you don't get full of yourself, you don't get, you don't stop being angry and uh, yeah, you keep shooting for it and that. Dyna mean. Sorry, I'm not English. Dynamic ishness. That is how you get to get to wherever you wanna go. Don't mind my English. I'm not a native.

Dan: 25:52

Is.

Bekah: 25:53

Dynamism.

Dan: 25:54

I know the, this is what I mean. We both speak English and this, that's, that's a tough word.

Taiwo: 26:00

we have.

Bekah: 26:05

Dynamism. I think. I could be wrong. So if there are listeners out there and would like to correct us, feel free to do that. Um, I, I love that advice, that idea of like continuing to be hungry and I think that, you know, sometimes that can be really hard when you start to lose motivation, but in some sense, if you continue to be hungry, I feel like that helps to provide that motivation. Um, have you ever struggled with motivation and. Found ways to like continue to to be hungry in that situation.

Taiwo: 26:41

Um, yes and no. Yes, because I think, no, because, let me start from there. Um, I think historically I'm a very, very, uh, energetic person that if I don't have somewhere to put that energy, I might blow up like a nuclear bump. So I just have to find somewhere to put it. So because of that, Uh, there is always this thing that pushes me until I meet something that keeps pushing me. That's is one. But like as human beings, we always have, uh, you know, our ups and downs. So, uh, yes, yes. Sometimes just comes and everything feels cold. I have this thing called the, is it the winter Blues? When it's cold, I feel bad. I feel like, oh my God. What's going on? Why is this world like this? So maybe most times in adults at that point then okay, I might need to push. And you know, you cannot go all year around with just warm weather. You have the colds too. So overall, the fact that you have to deliver the fact that I really, really care about what people think about me. At least in the work context. I really, really care. And I think that might be, uh, my, my, might not be the best, but I really, really care. I really care that, you know, I'm doing my best like possible best at this point. And even if I don't feel very good, I'll let you know I'm not feeling good. What or not don't do anything or just do it because I have to deliver. 'cause I also feel I get disappointed if someone says, okay, don't worry, it's gonna be there tomorrow. And I get there tomorrow. It's not there. I feel bad. That's why I don't like to promise people a lot of things. I will promise you what I'm gonna give you, but uh, don't also promise me what you're not gonna give. So that's a little bit of a philosophical thing for me. So, because I know I have to deliver, 'cause I know I signed up for 40 hours a week 'cause I know I'm gonna get paid and I don't want to get paid for not working. So yeah, that pushes me. Yeah. At least. Me, that's what I would say, uh, as an answer to that.

Bekah: 28:57

Yeah, I think that's great. Um, I'm gonna pivot a little bit here. So you're in Nigeria and it seems like there's a pretty great tech scene happening there. Uh, is that something. Thing that you're a part of.

Taiwo: 29:10

Hmm. I think that is, uh, for a long time now, Nigeria has been, Nigeria has been on the map for tech for a long time. I will say I don't think I have had. Any impact on that? Why? Because we have so many awesome people. Really, you know, just like I said, I've met Hoover, I've met Dan, I've met, uh, Davy Becker. Like also, I have also met a lot of also Nigerian That's like, Wow, this is awesome. And I have met a lot more that are also killed in it, in the international, you know, space. And, uh, yeah. So I don't think my contribution to that is very small. But, uh, I believe, uh, they, they, they've done a lot. Some of them have been doing this for the past 10 years, 15 years, you know, even bringing people. Into tech. They letting you know what's the status quo, what's the standard, is what quality of code is, right? Itc But at least my humble part, I believe my manager said, oh, I'm the first Nigerian's met and he's very happy he met me. So yeah, that's a plus one. Uh, that's, that's a plus for that at least. So I wouldn't say I'm right there, but yeah, I would say I'm coming. Everyone should watch. They should watch

Bekah: 30:24

is Grace Health based out of?

Taiwo: 30:27

Grace Health is based in Sweden stock, Stockholm, Sweden. So, uh, it's like, uh, fem health tech startup. So it's really, uh, empowers the, the goal, or let's say the, yeah, the goal is to empower women in, uh, low, middle, and low income. Uh, con countries and get them to have access to health, education, health, uh, infrastructure in a way. And, uh, you know, they can also get to link them with services that they have around them they did not know they had around them. So that's basically the whole goal of just giving health awesome health services to women in, uh, middle. And, uh, low income countries by the f of the phones. And so far, yeah, it's been an awesome journey. Uh, it's probably the best company I've worked in my life and I hope the trend goes up. So, yeah, I really do.

Bekah: 31:33

Oh, that's great to hear that you've enjoyed that experience. Um, we haven't had that many backend engineers on the podcast. Uh, can you talk a little bit about what your day-to-day looks like?

Taiwo: 31:45

Oh my gosh. So backend is the best. I think. Now I have to campaign because everyone, you've been listening to frontend for a long time, so it's time for you to vote for backend. No, uh, yeah. It's not about Democrats or anything, we're just the best. We're the best. So, uh, you should, you should come vote for us, basically, uh, on a normal day. I think, uh, yeah, you know, uh, these stats with checking your meals. Okay, what do I have? And your mail will most likely reflect, say, task assignment, if you get new tasks, task, uh, progress. If it moved away, you. Gub, you know, history, your D of PR status is it approved, you have things to change. So I think mostly personally, I will start with those things before we have our standard meeting and, uh, during our standard, you know, that's why you get to communicate your blockers, your status, all of those. And, uh, you get to ask. Uh, ask for help. They will prefer you have had threats, uh, help there before, but sometimes it's always good for everyone to know, yeah, I asked for help and I'm working on that help, uh, thingy. And then yeah, then you go back and then fix stuff. So backend is just the backhand of the internet.

Bekah: 33:11

internet.

Taiwo: 33:12

Yeah, that's what I would say if I, I shouldn't make it more complicated. That's why you store data. So you fetch data and that's why you return the data. That's why you play with data and uh, you just show everyone the result of playing with data. I hope

Bekah: 33:29

What language are you using?

Taiwo: 33:31

Oh, I write a lot of languages for backend. I write TypeScript, JavaScript, no gis, no, those scripts. And what I prefer, goal Line. I really, really love Goal Line. I also write P H P. I'm not fond of it. I write c C plus plus, but not for backend, much more for embedded systems. But I read dart. I literally wrote an article about. Learning dart just to spite my friend. 'cause he said, oh my God, it's so hard. I cannot really, I've never written this before in my life and I'm gonna learn it. I'm gonna write it in 2, 3, 4 hours. And I did. And I sent him the pr what, what, what? Yes, yes, yes. Now he's earning a lot of money now in the company now. And I doesn't remember that, that thing anymore. That's why I wrote the article. I wrote it like he knows, but I. And I'll share with with him the article very soon. So, uh, it's for backend, mostly TypeScript, JavaScript, no Js and, uh, Golan, but Python. Write Python too. Whatever comes I write Really, but I just prefer Golang. It's the Sorry for everyone, anyone. It's, it's what high school to be. I never,

Bekah: 34:47

Oh, spicy.

Taiwo: 34:49

yeah. I.

Dan: 34:50

Uh, what? Yeah. Why do you like it more? Like what, what, what, what do you like about, you know, as compared to some of the other languages?

Taiwo: 34:58

Um, Golan, I think, uh, it's very, very, the, the boundaries is very defined. Like yeah, we do, Golan doesn't have a lot of, you know, things added onto it. You literally, if both of us wrote the same thing, Very high. There's higher probability that works the same way because you use primitives, you use the follow the range, everything. You know how you're gonna write it, and it's cleaner, it's also strongly typed, and, uh, it doesn't compile to JavaScripts. That's the most important fact. It doesn't, sorry, Dan, but it it just doesn't JavaScript so it's faster. I think we had one thing at brace. We had to rewrite the, all of our code base from Node. TypeScript to GoLine and did that in five months, 3, 5, 4 months. Three engineers, I think an hour. Awesome, awesome. Uh, manager, uh, the Uber and we, we did cut a lot of cost, a lot, a lot of cost. And then I think if not up to like 40, 50% slash because no hour, we could downsize. Our instances on a w s, our C I C D run run faster. It was just awesome. That's how I fell in love again with Go. 'cause I had already been writing go before I joined, uh, GR Health. So everyone should learn. Go Dan, learn, go. Please,

Bekah: 36:28

That's right Dan.

Taiwo: 36:30

Again, please.

Dan: 36:31

I mean, you know, we'll see. As soon as we can write, uh, go for the browser, then, then I'm down. Otherwise is there, is there a er to transpire? Uh, go to JavaScript. That was only reason, the only reason I asked that question.

Taiwo: 36:51

No, I want, if we wanna have like a go something. How gonna have a TypeScript Thursday, Tuesday go that I'm looking at you now

Dan: 37:01

Go

Taiwo: 37:03

go.

Dan: 37:03

Thursday. Go Wednesday. Go

Taiwo: 37:04

No.

Dan: 37:05

Go.

Bekah: 37:06

I think it should be like, let's go Monday.

Dan: 37:09

We'll workshop it.

Bekah: 37:10

play on, let's go.

Taiwo: 37:13

Let's go. Let's, yeah, we might start that. Start thinking about, I believe VC has a lot of awesome, good developers. Uh, just one of the notable mentions I think is David and I did learn, I learned a lot of things. We had a lot of, quite a number of peer programming sessions, and they're like, oh, David, just check this out for me. Which is why, for everyone that's a VC that is not leveraging on the awesome, awesome body of, uh, experience and loving human beings that we have there. Oh, you're, you're just experiencing the v. The C part, you haven't experienced it. So v c, you've done the V, do the C. Just reach out, ask questions, let people help you. I think Becky might wanna write that down so that we can invite your coffee. Do the V do the C?

Bekah: 38:07

so I, you are super impressive. I just wanna say, uh, all of this stuff that you talk about is, um, You. You clearly know a lot. You are passionate about the things that you talk about. You're opinionated about it. I really appreciate that. So, if you were to imagine your dream job, I know that you said like maybe starting a SaaS would be in your future. What does that dream job look like?

Taiwo: 38:34

so I think my dream job, think, uh, the perfect job for anyone, I would say is a job that has its, uh, expectations. Very well defined. I think that's the smallest I can. Yes. Also with also, you know, colleagues, but you know, there's a leader by which you can affect that. 'cause human beings are human beings, but at least at a bare minimum, let the expectations but define, and it's not about like, oh, this is what you're gonna do and you get there, you stop doing. No, it's more like with regards to whatever you want to do at the point, let the expectations. Fine. Because at the bulk of the problems we have with human beings is the fact that you expect this and you get this really, you expect something good, get something bad. You expect something bad. If you're a shitty person, you get something good. So with regards to jobs, I think that's will be like the biggest and if I can help it. Awesome, awesome Colleagues. Because I tend to form long-term, uh, relationships with the people I've worked with. Like I said, I never spoil the, the, the, the, the floor that I'm leaving. I never do that. And that is why the bulk of my, my boss, the my friends and I can reach out to them. We can, you know, chat, talk, you know, hang, many of them are removed. So yeah, just hang over the phone, but awesome human beings. Awesome human beings. Very. Very awesome to have, but I believe at this point, and everyone we've seen that sometimes it might be very hard to ask and it's very, very sorry. It's very crazy, like hard to ask someone to be a healthy human being. But yeah, life's just life, just eats everyone differently. So in a nutshell, very, very predefined, uh, expectations and uh, also awesome colleagues and yeah, I will be happy, happy. Happy to do work. Good work too.

Bekah: 40:41

I think that's a really good answer, and I think that's one that, um, Is important to talk about because, uh, a lot of new folks especially have certain expectations for starting a new job. And I know for sure I did when I graduated bootcamp. Like there was a list of things that I wanted. Um, and I was lucky to have a career coach that was like, you're not gonna get all of these things in one job, or it's okay that you not get these things. And what I did find was most important was exactly what you said, like having those expectations set. So I didn't feel like I was floundering all of the time and working with good people because hey, you might be working on the most interesting technology out there, but if you're working with. Not good people. It's, it's not going to be enjoyable and it's probably gonna hold back your pro progress because I find that that like frustration, the frustration on the team side for sure can impede what you're doing. And like I can see a big difference between previous jobs that I've had. Job that I had and my current job, right? Like I've been here at my current job for four months and I've done so much in the four months, probably more than I did in an entire year at a previous job. But that's because I not feeling blocked all the time because there's a, a sense of ownership over what I'm doing. Um, and I did love my immediate team at my previous job. Um, Sometimes it's larger than just those handful of people you're working with, right? Like you have to kind of, um, figure out the overall structure of the organization and the people that are around you to see like, is this a place that the expectations for my team are aligned with the expectations of the broader team of people? And can we all work together to accomplish these things, which can be really hard to establish or understand from any kind of interview process.

Taiwo: 42:43

Very hard. Very, very hard, I think at this point. Like interviews have become a little bit one-sided with regards to it's about what you bring on onto the table, what you can do, how fast you can do it, and how less of money you can collect while doing it. It's frustrating. It's crazy. Well, you know, it's about this power balance, like the bulk of the power is not in your hand, at least not only you've got very, very good when you come. Very good. Yeah. You can dictate. This point? No. 'cause currently I am, uh, I'm trying, I'm looking for another job because of certain things I don't think I can talk about on the podcast and, uh, yeah. From my interviews, yeah. I, I can feel the power struggle. I can feel like, yeah, I'm not right where I'd like to be. I like, I, I, I don't want to be at this position. It's not. Good for me. It's not even good for me mentally. Like it's about how good and I can do magical stuff, trust me. But when the expectations are too high or too low or yo, it just messes everything up like, okay. Now, now, and I have like, currently I have a gig and this gig, I don't really wanna talk too much about it, but it really opened my eyes to how good. How important, having great, great, great, great, great, uh, colleagues is like, it's too, it's too much. You've just want it, but obviously, because you cannot, sometimes you have to eat and, uh, you just have to, yeah, well, I gotta eat. So, yeah, that's, that's, that's my take. I don't even know. That makes sense.

Bekah: 44:31

Yeah, that for sure makes sense. And I think, uh, I, you are looking for another job and that's just because of circumstances of your company are changing. Right. And so, um, we have time for about one more question, and maybe this is a good time for you to give your pitch. So if you're, you know, you're looking for a job, Tell us you know, who you are, what you wanna do, and the way that you would pitch a hiring manager.

Taiwo: 45:00

Thank you. Now this is where I'm gonna. Rock. So hello everyone. My name is Taiwo. I'm just saying hello again because I know you've heard, but case, if you didn't hear, this is the time to listen. I'm wo, I am a backend engineer. I have four years of experience and a couple more before then building hardware. So trust me, there is nothing I haven't built, even if I haven't built it. I have thought about it, how to build it. So, uh, I'm out there looking for a backend engineering role, preferably a mid-level backend engineering role. 'cause like I said, I know my level, I know where I wanna be and I know how, uh, I like to get there. So I also double as a DevOps engineer. I love a w s, I'm quite comfortable with Terraform, you know, all of those things. So if you need someone to get things done, that's all. I'm here for you and I'm gonna get it done. I hope that's okay. Yeah. Thank you.

Bekah: 46:02

fantastic. Yeah. And I just love your constant motivation, your desire to learn and make progress. And I think that that's huge. So, um, if you're out there listening and you're hiring, Taiwo is available and amazing. And with that, I wanna say thank you so much, Taiwo, for being here and sharing your story with us today.

Taiwo: 46:25

Oh, thank you very much for having me, Dan Bekah. This is awesome. Now I get to go hear myself talk. Yeah, I like that voice. I like that voice.

Dan: 46:39

All right. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Ashley Mulder. If you have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, buy some VC merch, and check out all of our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

The Virtual Coffee Podcast is produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel and edited by Dan Ott.